| Author
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Topic: Unanswered Questions About
911 |
Ted McMillan
Top Ranking General
Member # 1
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 posted 10-25-2005 03:38 PM      
Is the
Adventist Church giving the message entrusted to her correctly?
If that is so, why is this following quotation from the Spirit
of Prophecy present in our collections:
[I saw an immense ball of
fire fall among some beautiful mansions, causing their instant
destruction. I heard someone say: "We knew that the
judgments of God were coming upon the earth, but we did not know
that they would come so soon." Others, with agonized
voices, said: "You knew! Why then did you not tell us? We
did not know."--Testimonies for the Church Vol. 9, 28
(1909)
With all even our
Revelation seminars the Adventist Church gives, how come the
people did not know? Maybe because they were not properly
or more specifically told??] Visit http://www.unansweredquestions.org/ .
These guys are comprised of concerned citizens, researchers
and investigators about issues critical to our time, but they
appear to be putting a great focus on the 911 incident. They
claim the whole thing smells of fish, and that there are just
too many unanswered questions.
They want people to communicate with them. They have info
on establishing activism campaigns for the protection of
families and communities.
--------------------
For the Work Finished!
Ted McMillan
tmac1238@seventh-dayadventism.com
THE
LAST WORD ON ADVENTIST TRUTH!!
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/
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Susan Williams
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Member # 20
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posted 10-27-2005 05:30 PM
Hi Sdazeal,
You found it to be propaganda. Can other people find it to
be something else?
You will then have to explain what propaganda is. Why
didn't you show us what it was? What is it? Is the government
version of 911 truth and fact?
Is it true that for the first time, a major terror attack
can be staged on American soil and that would call for the one
who failed to protect 3,000 lives to be a dictator? We must
reward those who fail us? That's truth and fact?
Is it true that after the failure, the man in charge can
post pictures of the 911 disaster for his re-election
campaign? Showing pictures of his failure?
Is it true that because of 911, we can now have a President
that will "make the tough decisions" here at home, so he
institutes the Patriot Act that is laced with principles the
Communists, Nazis and Inquisitors of history already made
tough decisions about? The Communists, Nazis and the
Inquisitors all had similar principles that are contained in
the Patriot Act.
Is it true that we can start a war to look for WMDs, and
then after it is found there are none, we find a new
scientific phenomenon: white men can't blush! What else can we
find? Such a failure of a president being re-elected?? Without
cheating at the voting lines?
What is propaganda? That the president can obstruct an
independent investigation of 911 for almost two years? When
then it is held, the conclusion is that we were not protected
because of the former President? Do you know that every
"Conspiracy Theorist" we know of would stage an independent
investigation right away? Do you know that the "Conspiracy
Theorists" would make the government open and not secretive?
Do you know that Bush claims to fight for democracy, but is
making the government more and more secretive from the people?
Is it true that terrorists can be stupid enough to hate
Bush, and then spend a large budget to train terrorists to
attack the World Trade Center buildings and then Bush gets
stronger and claims dictator powers? Why couldn't they be like
the terrorists who killed President Kennedy and made him
weaker? They used a meager budget, you know.
Tell us what is propaganda? Don't leave us hanging in the
dark like that.
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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sdazeal
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posted 10-28-2005 04:11 AM
Susan, WBR,
etal,
Here is why I consider it a propaganda site.
First, it
is stated that the purpose of the website is not "finding the
truth of 911" but to bring "regime change". Second, 911 is not
the only topic the website covers. All of the topics and links
are anti-republican and many of them are unrelated to
911.
Third, there is no mention of the atrocities and
unanswered questions regarding Bill Clinton's dealings with
those same third world countries.
Lastly, if there was a
website devoted to "unanswered questions regarding EGW" and it
was filled with unrelated anti-SDA links, you would no doubt
see it a propaganda site. I would say the same about an
republican website that was presented as thus, as I have no
party affiliation.
Are there unanswered questions regarding
911? Sure there are.
Should we try to get to the bottom of
it? Yes,we should.
Is that the reason for the existence of
that website? No way!
If the same thing had happened with
a liberal democrat in office would this site be pressing so
hard for answeres? No way!
That is my explanation.
--------------------
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know the
doctrine"
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Jackson
unregistered
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posted 10-28-2005 08:20 AM
[Jackson now
comes in. I want you to look specifically upon his
accusations below here, because he is going to very breathlessly
break them later on...]Susan, Your
diatribe against the president and the government is
completely unbecoming an Adventist, no less a Christian. You
make unsubstantiated charges and judge motive- both designed
to malign the character. of others. You had better get back to
the SOP , which I know you love, and take its admonitions on
this subject to heart.
The less we make direct charges against authorities and
powers, the greater work we shall be able to accomplish, both
in America and in foreign countries. Foreign nations will
follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out,
yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of
the world.” {CW 69.2}
Before we come fully to the front, let us see to it
that the Holy Spirit is poured upon us from on high. When this
is the case, we shall give a decided message, but it will be
of a far less condemnatory character than that which some have
been giving; and all who believe will be far more earnest for
the salvation of our opponents. Let God have the matter of
condemning authorities and governments wholly in His own
keeping. In meekness and love, let us as faithful sentinels
defend the principles of truth as it is in Jesus. . . .” {CW
72.1}
If we wish men to be convinced that the truth we believe
sanctifies the soul and transforms the character, let us not
be continually charging them with vehement accusations. In
this way we shall force them to the conclusion that the
doctrine we profess cannot be the Christian doctrine, since it
does not make us kind, courteous, and respectful. Christianity
is not manifested in pugilistic accusations and condemnation.”
{ CW 71.2}
[THE PATRIOT ACT SAYS THE
PRESIDENT (GOVERNMENT) CAN ARREST ANYONE WITHOUT CHARGE
INDEFINITELY WITHOUT ANY JUDICIAL REVIEW NOR RIGHTS TO PROVE
THE GOVERNMENT HAS MADE A MISTAKE. When we talk about
Jesuits here, we mean people who cause all the problems but
are only active against people who struggle for a solution.
The Patriot Act is far more than a malignment of character
and made on the basis of transforming America into a
"Christian nation," but Jesuits, being the creators of all
fascism, will not be able to notice how it threatens
millions of people in a far worse way than mere accusations
against leaders.
But Jackson's accusations would be true if we present pugilistic accusations
and condemnations. Jesuits put
us into the relativistic environment we are in where they
encouraged all kinds of debate and classifying groups with
different opinions in order to tell us all opinions are equally
valid. It is the same Jesuits that would then come out
with such definite guidance as if they always knew what was
right from wrong beyond all opinion or disagreement.
As far as we know, all attempts in
Ellen White's time that were against the government even
worked to an activism concept, either even to head to the
polls or buy weapons to form militias, etc. That is
not what we're doing in the printed work we have presented.
We do not reveal what is going on "too harsh" unless someone
takes it upon himself to know where the line is drawn.
Then the last point will be presented later on...] Our greatest enemies will not be the government and its
leaders, but those leaders in the fallen churches.
[This is not advice given to regular civilians in the
outside world who need to protect themselves. We let them
know what is happening presently in government that is
absolutely absurd so that they can move and find shelter.
Leaders in fallen churches think directly upon us also, but
those are not the ones making direct plans for depopulation of
the people.] Just as in
Christ’s time, it wasn’t Pilate but the Jewish priests who
persecuted Him. Jesus was not condemned because He spoke out
against the government (which He never did), but because He
admonished the religious order. The same holds true for Paul
and the other disciples. It is not in God’s order to attack
the government. The real enemy in the last days will be those
who hate the truth.
There will come a time when, because of our advocacy of
Bible truth, we shall be treated as traitors; but let not this
time be hastened by unadvised movements that stir up animosity
and strife. ” {CW 68.2}
It is our advocacy of Bible truth that will cause
our persecution and it should not be for our denunciation of
government and its leaders as conspirators.
IP: Logged
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Susan Williams
Guard
Member # 20
Member Rated:
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 posted 10-29-2005 02:57 PM
quote:
Susan, Your diatribe against the president and the
government is completely unbecoming an Adventist, no less a
Christian. You make unsubstantiated charges and judge
motive- both designed to malign the character. of others.
You had better get back to the SOP , which I know you love,
and take its admonitions on this subject to heart.
--Jackson, you make unsubstantiated charges designed to
malign character. My words are not diatribe because you
disagree with them.
quote:
The less we make direct charges against authorities and
powers, the greater work we shall be able to accomplish,
both in America and in foreign countries. Foreign nations
will follow the example of the United States. Though she
leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in
all parts of the world.” {CW 69.2}
The less we make direct charges against God's people will
be the better we fare in eternity. It is the road to calling
good evil and evil good and ultimately those who commit the
grossest of crimes will be supported by all such. You leave
that to God alone.
The direct charges business even talks about actions that
stand out. President Bush starting a war because of WMDs and
after finding out it is false to the loss of thousands of
lives both here and abroad and then the man cannot blush, is
something that is already publicly acknowledged. As much as
63% of Canadians, in a PUBLIC report claimed they believed
that Bush was responsible for 911. If those who even have
Christ cannot see that, then obviously they agree with the
man. Nothing is done that is out of the ordinary, but still,
as even with our Adventist leaders, Bush and them must
continue and do worse things--things he dared not do fifty
years ago.
quote:
Before we come fully to the front, let us see to it that the
Holy Spirit is poured upon us from on high. When this is the
case, we shall give a decided message, but it will be of a
far less condemnatory character than that which some have
been giving; and all who believe will be far more earnest
for the salvation of our opponents. Let God have the matter
of condemning authorities and governments wholly in His own
keeping. In meekness and love, let us as faithful sentinels
defend the principles of truth as it is in Jesus. . . .” {CW
72.1}
Above is a knee jerk judgment that is especially emitted by
those involved in the conspiracy. Just because I alert the
people doesn't mean I do anything TOO MUCH because you want to
judge me TOO MUCH. What is spoken of is a local incident that
does not necessarily apply to the absurd conditions that will
take place in the last days to the loss of much life. It says
it will be far less than what some have been giving. Those
examples need to be pointed out, along with the actual
examples of what happened in that day, compared to ours. If
the things President Bush did now were done fifty years ago,
he would have been executed. The quote you speak of was well
before fifty years ago.
quote:
If we wish men to be convinced that the truth we believe
sanctifies the soul and transforms the character, let us not
be continually charging them with vehement accusations. In
this way we shall force them to the conclusion that the
doctrine we profess cannot be the Christian doctrine, since
it does not make us kind, courteous, and respectful.
Christianity is not manifested in pugilistic accusations and
condemnation.” {CW 71.2}
I do not condemn harshly because strange people who support
differing beliefs come to that conclusion. You have placed
yourself as the judge of how much is too much, etc. It is best
you leave off that judgmental attitude and rather go attack
the problems.
[Here now Jackson is given opportunity to enter into
discussion. Since the way we present the message must
please him, he is asked to contribute and to show us how it
is to be done. This, knowing the history of this forum
that we are opposed to wasting time, will he get into the
discussion and answer?] What is the limit to this harshness? How can a man speak
and say that the war was created to kill off our
constitutional soldiers so that lives can be saved without
having those who support the killers being upset and then
coming to accuse God's people? It is your accusations that are
unfounded and not supportable.
Even political elites have boldly condemned President Bush
for his forcing this country into war to the loss of much
life. Bush is still continuing his activities because his
media friends entered and dismissed the concern for life on
the grounds that the poor person who cost so much blood was
insulted. Christianity will show a love for the people. It
will not favor the killers who are the fewer at the expense of
the people. The eyes of the people have to be opened, and
those who put people in harms way and are in the middle of the
crimes will inevitably be pointed out, just as I trying to
correct the problem was.
quote:
Our greatest enemies will not be the government and its
leaders, but those leaders in the fallen churches. Just as
in Christ’s time, it wasn’t Pilate but the Jewish priests
who persecuted Him. Jesus was not condemned because He spoke
out against the government (which He never did), but because
He admonished the religious order. The same holds true for
Paul and the other disciples. It is not in God’s order to
attack the government. The real enemy in the last days will
be those who hate the truth.
The actual persecution, imprisonment and pain will be done
by the government. It is the government's office to punish
criminals. That is not the churches office. Because there is
infiltration, the armies that will give the persecution WILL
BE RELIGOUS. It is that very way where they identify good
American soldiers to hit the front lines over in Iraq. They
merely separate those soldiers even into companies who are not
members of their orders.
[Here now reveals pointed danger that ordinary
civilians--even the irreligious--need to be warned about.
Jackson is being urged on to enter into the discussion and
educate us: the people he is accusing. What is he
going to do with it?...] It is not church leaders that we know of who even left
Homeland Security claiming that he doesn't understand why
terrorists don't poison the American food supply since it is
such an easy thing to do. So easy, that it is unprecedented.
In my personal endeavors I go for those who have no clue as to
what is happening. Preachers poison the doctrine, but it is
much harder to even show the irreligious this, for they don't
care. There is something however that concerns all. I choose
to enter literally into the life issues. That is my choice.
The leaders in church affairs have been pushing change the
same way leaders in state affairs are. I get into particular
issues that concern everybody.
You obviously have not read the Great Controversy, even the
Chapter where Protestant artists went to paint pictures and
boldly posted one with Christ in crude garments riding on a
donkey. They then painted another one with the Pope in awesome
robes and procession. That was the government and that was the
church. What we are indeed facing is a uniting of the two.
quote:
There will come a time when, because of our advocacy of
Bible truth, we shall be treated as traitors; but let not
this time be hastened by unadvised movements that stir up
animosity and strife. ” {CW 68.2}
It is not unadvised because you are intolerant. There are
problems and there are solutions. The problems will never
follow their own advice. Advice like this needs to not only go
to Bush but to all who are in conspiracy for change. You
forget that Bush claims to be a Christian. It is your
judgments as to what is unadvised. I say that when even the
government starts making excuses for why they will allow the
American food supply to be poisoned, the people need to know
about this, and just as soon as possible, without worrying
about those who will be embarrassed or insulted to not be able
to blush. If insults bother them, they would blush based upon
their own earth-shattering failures and mistakes that they
don't even own up to.
I will be concerned for the lives of the troops that are
lost over the killers who put them in harms way who are crying
because they have been insulted. Condi Rice sad because her
integrity has been impugned because she sold a false war that
not only cost the lives of thousands, but irreparably damaged
our freedom. The country counts that its security is not found
in preserving the integrity of people who put thousands of
others into harms way and death, and who are then no use
because they are constantly crying because of their humongous
and embarrassing mistakes that makes then continue in those
mistakes.
quote:
It is our advocacy of Bible truth that will cause our
persecution and it should not be for our denunciation of
government and its leaders as conspirators.
The two go hand in hand. Even the Evangelical movement the
Adventist Church can never join. They demand that all churches
that join must give up their distinctive beliefs EXCEPT ROME.
They tell us we are not to study the Revelation and end-time
prophecy. Revelation 22 tells us that who either adds to or
take away from that message are lost. By discouraging everyone
from going into the study of the Revelation, the entire
Evangelical movement is headed into condemnation.
The Adventist understanding of the Mark of the Beast,
although correct, IS NOT COMPLETE. No one is going to burn in
hell day and night merely for breaking the Sabbath. What will
happen is that those who accept Sunday will be forced by the
government to condemn or give their influence against those
who don't abide by the rules. Even so much as the nodding of
the head, telling the world that those people are bad will
wind up causing their deaths when there is chaos everywhere.
People ARE TO KNOW THIS!
By the way, somebody accused the Clinton Administration.
[Jackson accused the Clinton
Administration.] [ 10-29-2005: Message edited by: Susan Williams ]
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Susan Williams
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Member # 20
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posted 10-29-2005 03:04 PM
I can
actually privately post here what I want. The quotations you
even used were not to apply to me here. They were out of
place.
Posting here will not go into all the world. There are many
other Christians who are exposing the Bush administration.
Even saw a video of Dr. Bob Trefz showing the history of the
Bush family. The judgments against me were merely to aid the
movements that Bush is pushing. The same is true of those who
come among the Adventist people telling them that they
concentrate on their distinctive doctrines TOO MUCH, when
hardly a one of them can expound correctly on the Present
Truth.
[Now here is some real timely counsel for the Jesuits:] Let all those concerned about issuing judgments make
sure they don't do it. Then all should be well.
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Susan Williams
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posted 10-29-2005 04:34 PM
We must
always remember that time and place matters in interpreting
the writings of Ellen White. She thought that the end would
even come in her day. Even at the time, if one was to know of
secret plots by national leaders, and came out with bold
charges back then, those people would stand out. That is truly
not the case today.
A democratic government would care what the people think.
With even public polls forced to admit the vast numbers of
people who not only distrust the Bush Administration but
believe it is complicit with the 911 disaster, no one stands
out proclaiming anything against Bush, and Bush certainly
doesn't care. When Jesuits infiltrate and cause havoc,
complaints will only make them get worse and worse. Not
complaining will not stop them either.
Stand out anywhere and protest Bush even as a Christian and
see if you are an oddball. Things have gotten that much out of
hand. No one would be considered a weird cult by condemning
the misdeeds of President Bush.
Time and place matters. We still have to warn the people
that they are victims for depopulation and orchestrated
catastrophes. If we don't, we will be blamed for the
calamities.
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Susan Williams
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Member # 20
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 posted 10-29-2005 05:06 PM
Sdazeal...
quote:
Susan, WBR, etal,
Here is why I consider it a
propaganda site.
First, it is stated that the purpose of
the website is not "finding the truth of 911" but to bring
"regime change".
It can do that perfectly within its rights
and not be propaganda. It talks about a condition where
important questions are not even allowed to be asked or
answered. It is talking about an entity that even starts wars
for DEMOCRACY, claiming to defend what the people want. Upon
viewing this condition that has no justification, anyone can
want to even probe more, but can already tell that something
needs to change
quote:
Second, 911 is not the only topic the website covers. All
of the topics and links are anti-republican and many of them
are unrelated to 911.
The weblink is unansweredquestions.org. It
does not have to center on 911 alone. As a matter of fact, it
would be more reputable if it didn't just center on 911. The
weblink isn't 911.org. If it wants to, it can oppose the
Republicans, Democrats, or anything else without being or
considered giving false information.
quote:
Third, there is no mention of the atrocities and
unanswered questions regarding Bill Clinton's dealings with
those same third world countries.
They don't have to deal with the world of
unsolved mysteries if they don't want to. That doesn't mean
their information is false. Bill Clinton is not the President
today, and what happens to Bill does not affect life, limb,
property, nor the pursuit of happiness.
quote:
Lastly, if there was a website devoted to "unanswered
questions regarding EGW" and it was filled with unrelated
anti-SDA links, you would no doubt see it a propaganda site.
I would say the same about an republican website that was
presented as thus, as I have no party affiliation.
The name for the weblink is appropriate. It
deals with unanswered questions that don't have to center on
any one thing, number one, and don't have to center on what
anyone think is unanswered and should be dealt with.
quote:
Are there unanswered questions regarding 911? Sure there
are. Should we try to get to the bottom of it? Yes,we
should. Is that the reason for the existence of that
website? No way! If the same thing had happened with a
liberal democrat in office would this site be pressing so
hard for answeres? No way!
That is my explanation.
You don't know that! You don't know what
would be if a liberal Democrat was in office. Your standards
cannot hold for the present. The Bush Administration stands
alone as being the worst presidency known to this country. It
is for that reason why a persistently psychotic and babbling
fifth column army is appointed to argue the opposite.
Bush
is bold because of what? Bush made the mistake of a lifetime
to start a war based on WMDs, and is found to be wrong. Why
isn't he red in the face and even executed compared to all
other times? There is a fifth column army there to babble till
D Day that nothing is wrong with Bush and that he has done
nothing wrong.
He claims to be the only President God directly talks to,
and God has blessed him with unprecedented fuel prices,
unprecedented deficits, laws that the Nazis and Communists
always had that he claims are his "tough decision," a far more
secretive government, huge losses of life that makes the
military now more and more tyrannical, delays of service for
hurricane victims. The list goes on and on that only people
who are not intelligent will allow the babbling fifth column
stooges and debaters to argue away.
It is not surprising that even Republicans may vote
Democratic next time. Does not prove anyone is into propaganda
and is giving false information.
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Jackson
unregistered
|
posted 10-29-2005 07:14 PM
[Jackson was
urged to enter into discussion even realizing the history of
this forum. He has already been urged to show that if he
has problems with our exposes, he is supposed to show us how it
should be done. Will he take the moment given him to enter
into discussion? What will he do?...]Susan,
Do you believe all the testimonies given to our church are
inspired or do you not?
By some of our brethren many things have been spoken and
written that are interpreted as expressing antagonism to
government and law. It is a mistake thus to lay ourselves open
to misunderstanding.
[Here it is saying that we may be misunderstood.
That is because the very prophecy indeed reveals bad things that
the United States especially is going to do.
We can also, with true Americans, find
ourselves into an impass where to defend the Constitution of the
United States will force us to condemn those who are oathed to
uphold it. That is the same thing happening with the
treason against Adventism being orchestrated by Adventist
leaders that caused unprecedented distrust...]
It is not wise to find fault continually
with what is done by the rulers of government. It is not
our work to attack individuals or institutions.
[But has Jackson already broken this rule?
Even with Bill Clinton? We're
just trying to get you to understand the issues here.]
We should
exercise great care lest we be understood as putting ourselves
in opposition to the civil authorities.
[We are not presenting this information to be
misunderstood and be against the civil authorities.
Neither is the huge disaffection toward the Bush Administration
to be equated with being Anti-government. If that is so,
even the Democrats by their words would be Anti-government.
Even the 2006 elections bringing back a
Democratically controlled congress, would be sedition!]
It is true that our
warfare is aggressive, but our weapons are to be those found
in a plain "Thus saith the Lord." Our work is to prepare a
people to stand in the great day of God. We should not be
turned aside to lines that will encourage controversy or
arouse antagonism in those not of our faith. {6
Testimonies 394.1}
This is plain , unequivical, counsel . Why the stubborn
resistance?
IP: Logged
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sdazeal
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Member # 316
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posted 10-29-2005 07:37 PM
I suppose
then that it is just a matter of speculation and personal
belief. I was involved in politics for years and know
propaganda when I see it. You can tell by the adjectives,
superlatives and innuendo that this group has its mind made
up. When they say the questions are unanswered what they
really mean is, "They have not been answered the way we think
they should have been". In other words, unless Bush and
Conoleeza rice step and say, "Yeah, we set the whole thing up.
We hired pilots to run planes into our own buildings as an
excuse to attack Iraq and Aghanistan. We started the war to
line Halliburton's pockets and for everyone to have cheap gas
and drive up my own popularity.Yes, this is our way to install
a dictatorship.Everyone thinks I was just re-elected by a
popular vote, but hey, that was rigged too!"
Sorry, Susan, its not going to happen. The truth is that
Condie Rice, G.W. Bush, and Vice prez Cheney have answered
those same questions over and over again ad nauseum. The
liberals just won't accept the answers.
[In other words, sdazeal is attacking the government, but
just the "liberal" side without seeing any necessity of BEING
CAREFUL.]
But the point is,
if you think that website would be grilling a democrat
administration the same way, you are very naive.
I am
afraid I don't understand why people who are afraid of the
Sunday law (as if it won't happen regardless of who the
president is) align themselves with the left wing kooks,
homosexuals and baby killers.
[Are
government leaders included with this railing against government
leaders Jackson is here performing?]
There is nowhere in the SOP
or the Bible that says a president will make himself dictator
(as if that can EVEN happen, ever heard of congress? Did they
have to approve every move that was made? Yes they did, when
it was led by the dems, no less) and force everyone to become
a police state.The Bible states plainly that the beast out of
the earth has "two horns" (republican and democrat) not one
(the president).
[Ever heard of a Democratic Congress that begged to be elected
in order to review the crimes of President Bush and then, after
hearing their election win results, began chanting, "Impeachment
is off the table!" before they even sat in power?
We're showing here that EVERYONE HAS CONCERNS. The Jesuits
will always quote how God will protect "His Church" but no one
notices that they have the strangest of concerns, ESPECIALLY
CONCERNS THAT ADVENTISTS WON'T AGREE WITH THEIR PROPAGANDA.
What if Adventists decide to warn the world of the massively
escalating treason in American government and their intents to
depopulate America and the rest of the world? Why do they
keep telling us we must not do that because God will save us as
a people and our church, but they can't understand that God
will save His Church from people who want to do His will and
warn the world of the escalating treason and rise of the
Antichrist?]
The devil will use both sides in his
plan. The humanistic liberal democrats,who would like to see
ALL Christianity and religion go away and the right-wing
Christian republicans, who want to force their morals on
everyone else, limiting freedom of conscience. That is why
I cannot support either side.
[And others who want the freedom of conscience to warn their
brothers and sisters about the massive death engine being
created against them without having to worry about someone
attacking them who believe they will destroy God's Church.]
But as one who nearly ran
for office (my wife talked me out of it) and was a "political
junkie" for years, I know liberal propaganda when I see it.
--------------------
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know the
doctrine"
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Susan Williams
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posted 10-29-2005 07:42 PM
Jackson, do
you believe we must refrain from buying bicycles or not?
Speaking against George Bush makes no one an oddball or
cult member in this day and age.
[The Democrats do it and are not regarded as
Anti-government.] That is number one. Then
taking Ellen White's writings to mean that certain people for
all time speak unnecessarily evil of this or that is using
Ellen White's writings to secure your own judgment. You are
not the standard for who does anything too much or
unnecessarily, etc. You also have not addressed the time and
place issue.
I can post things about the Bush Administration on a
private forum like this and even on a public one. I don't do
this when soul winning. I don't have to.
If I have to warn people about their food supply when Tommy
Thompson made the remark that he doesn't know why the
terrorists haven't yet attacked the American food supply
because it's such an easy thing to do, I'm not going to keep
silent to make anyone get paranoid about insults. I let them
know what is happening and I don't even have to mention Bush.
I am not waiting till blood spills from here to Greenland in
order to make anyone who misinterprets Ellen White's writings
happy.
If there is imminent danger even, it will be told the
people!
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Susan Williams
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posted 10-29-2005 08:04 PM
SDAzeal
wrote,
quote:
I suppose then that it is just a matter of speculation
and personal belief. I was involved in politics for years
and know propaganda when I see it. You can tell by the
adjectives, superlatives and innuendo that this group has
its mind made up. When they say the questions are unanswered
what they really mean is, "They have not been answered the
way we think they should have been". In other words, unless
Bush and Conoleeza rice step and say, "Yeah, we set the
whole thing up. We hired pilots to run planes into our own
buildings as an excuse to attack Iraq and Aghanistan. We
started the war to line Halliburton's pockets and for
everyone to have cheap gas and drive up my own
popularity.Yes, this is our way to install a
dictatorship.Everyone thinks I was just re-elected by a
popular vote, but hey, that was rigged too!"
Minds can be made up. That is not a problem,
and that is not proof of anything. If a very serious crime is
committed that costs the lives of many and then an
investigation is called, and then certain people obstruct the
investigation, even in the ancient Hebrew laws it was always
common sense to know that you can make up your mind that all
who does that is guilty. To assume is wrong, but in certain
cases, one is to expect that even condoned by the God of
Israel.
If 911 takes place, and some phony boloney excuse
comes to delay a fair independent investigation while all
evidence is fresh. If records are destroyed, no intelligent
person should be humiliated by the fifth-column confusion
creators who insist that minds cannot be made up. It is
perfectly legitimate to assume that those delaying the
investigation are involved. Knowing this, still there are
unanswered questions. Not only is there no crime in this, but
to think otherwise is stupidity and victimization of
Jesuitism.
quote:
Sorry, Susan, its not going to happen. The truth is that
Condie Rice, G.W. Bush, and Vice prez Cheney have answered
those same questions over and over again ad nauseum. The
liberals just won't accept the answers.
[Claims to have
answered questions is typical in our struggles on the internet
with the Jesuits. SDAzeal, from this point is free to
present that evidence. Will he?]
I'm answering your questions now, and you
better accept it and stop your propaganda. I don't care how
many times they claimed to have answered. Our evidence shows
many people claiming to have answered this and that, and when
requested for the links with their postings they know better
than to come clean showing the links where they have
answered.
quote:
But the point is, if you think that website would be
grilling a democrat administration the same way, you are
very naive.
You don't know that! If you do know that then
from your class being a Republican, I can say what I want
without being jarred by you over into the propaganda column!
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT! Are you trying to tell me that I loved
the Clinton Administration? If so, you don't know what you are
talking about.
quote:
I am afraid I don't understand why people who are afraid
of the Sunday law(as if it won't happen regardless of who
the president is)align themselves with the left wing kooks,
homosexuals and baby killers.
There is nowhere in the SOP
or the Bible that says a president will make himself
dictator (as if that can EVEN happen, ever heard of
congress? Did they have to approve every move that was made?
Yes they did, when it was led by the dems, no less) and
force everyone to become a police state.
If inspiration did not say that, it is still
happening anyway. By law, the President can OWN anyone merely
on the accusation of having ties to terrorists. We don't
notice this because the Patriot Act is not enforced to its
dregs, but the reason why soldiers are dying in Iraq now IS
BECAUSE THOSE SOLDIERS ON THE FRONT LINES, FOR ONE THING,
REFUSE TO ENFORCE THE PATRIOT ACT ACCORDING TO THE LIMITS OF
ITS POWER!
quote:
[B]The Bible states plainly that the beast out of the earth
has "two horns" (republican and democrat) not one (the
president). The devil will use both sides in his plan. The
humanistic liberal democrats,who would like to see ALL
Christianity and religion go away and the right-wing
Christian republicans, who want to force their morals on
everyone else, limiting freedom of conscience.
That is
why I cannot support either side. But as one who nearly ran
for office (my wife talked me out of it) and was a
"political junkie" for years, I know liberal propaganda when
I see it.
[Notice how he is exalting his own
opinions above that of the diverse audience? He says, "The
Bible states PLAINLY" and then tells us the two horns represents
two of the three political parties in America. THERE IS
THEN A RAILING OF ACCUSATIONS AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS.
Notice?
After soaking us in debate, they have to put us into different
classes. Several times they repeated over and over again
that we were Democrats just because we opposed the actions of GW
Bush. They keep doing this because we must be understood
by them to be Democrat, before the actual Democrats betray the
American people openly and chant, "Impeachment is off the
table!" and then they support the wars.]
I do not support either side either. You just
assumed that I did. Sides have nothing to do with the fact
that no president has ever cursed this country yet like Bush.
All the babbling fifth-column conspirators will not change
that fact. He is extremely bad for constitutional government
and very good for New World Order tyranny.
We were already working on this point to begin with in a
massive write-up, the fact that the Jesuits constantly put
people into classes, such as "right-wing" and "left-wing",
"democrat" and "republican" in order to say that all they can
ever do is speculate and submit their opinions. The articles
are already on the website, but the links are being defined.
The American public lose their power by also being put into
classes, because those making the changes all around are not
bound to any classes. Being a Democrat does not mean a person
has a certain opinion and that it will be always wrong.
Next, being sure of oneself as if one knows a particular
topic already is again no proof that he is wrong or is going
to give wrong information. Christians themselves are supposed
to be sure of themselves.
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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sdazeal
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posted 10-30-2005 03:46 AM
Actually ,
Susan, I have not assumed anything about YOU, but have assumed
plenty about the website that claims to be "looking for honest
answers". I have no comments to the effect of who you are or
what you believe, except that I agree with Jackson regardign
the undue overfocus on politics in general.
[Where did he notice this "undue over-focus on politics?"
He saw this in Adventist literature? Remember when we
entered the former Adventist forums, we were the only ones who
focused on the problems causing all kinds of confusion and
disagreement: the Jesuits? Remember we were then assailed
by Jesuits posing as Adventists and former Adventists WHO KEPT
SAYING WE FOCUS ON THIS ISSUE "TOO MUCH?" and would stop telling
this lie? Remember we asked them what would happen if we
were kicked off the forum knowing the subject of the
Jesuits would stop completely? Remember they babbled
around that question and wouldn't answer?
Was the US government struggling to put the American
people under tyranny and to depopulate them in Ellen White's
day?]
--------------------
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know the
doctrine"
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Jackson
unregistered
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posted 10-30-2005 08:49 AM
[Will Jackson
finally enter into the discussion?...]Susan
asked,"Jackson, do you believe we must refrain from buying
bicycles or not?"
IN 1895, ELLEN WHITE WAS GIVEN A VIEW OF HAPPENINGS IN
BATTLE CREEK. AMONG OTHER SCENES WHICH PASSED BEFORE HER WAS
ONE INVOLVING BICYCLES USED IN RACING, AND A STRIFE FOR THE
MASTERY. SEE TESTIMONIES FOR THE CHURCH, VOL. 8, PP. 51, 52.
AT THE TIME THIS SCENE WAS PRESENTED, THE BICYCLE WAS NOT
KNOWN AS AN ECONOMICAL MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION, BUT WAS RATHER
A RICH MAN'S TOY. BICYCLES WERE BEING PURCHASED BY OUR YOUNG
PEOPLE IN BATTLE CREEK, NOT TO PROVIDE NEEDED TRANSPORTATION
TO WORK OR SCHOOL, BUT RATHER AS A DEMONSTRATION OF
SUPERIORITY, FOR SHOW, AND IN THE SEEKING OF SUPREMACY. THE
YOUNG PEOPLE WERE MORTGAGING THEIR INCOMES FOR MONTHS IN
ADVANCE TO BUY WHAT WAS THEN AN EXPENSIVE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT
TO BE SO USED. WITHIN A FEW YEARS' TIME, THE BICYCLE BECAME A
USEFUL AND INEXPENSIVE MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION. {TM 525.3
Appendix notes}
Believe it or not Susan that counsel on bicycles was as
timeless as the counsel against railing against the government
and its leaders. Mrs White was warning against spending money
on luxuries one really could not afford in order to glorify
self. When bicycles became affordable, they also became a
practical means for transportation and were no longer the
issue. But the principle is timeless. You don't go buy a
Mercedes Benz when a Toyota Corolla will do nicely.
[Ellen White therefore prohibited the buying of bicycles
in her day but would not do that now. The same is true for
the situation in discussion. It is to the point where we
actually have to shout at people to bring common sense today to
even show them that 911 was indeed planned by the government and
the Iraq War was illegal and they therefore need to protect
themselves. Why be weird like the Democrats and a
staggering percentage of the global population?] For you to claim that the SOP counsel I offered to you is
somehow not applicable today is absolutely without any merit.
That counsel, if followed, was to give believability to our
claim to be true Christians working in the manner of Christ.
Your penchant for character assassination is unworthy of a
professed follower of Christ.
Please stop the stubborn excuse making and reevaluate your
present course . Time is short and we need to get on message.
The inspired testimonies say that your accusations are out of
order and hurt our cause.. We don't want to hurt our cause ,
do we?
It is not alone those who openly reject the Testimonies,
or who cherish doubt concerning them, that are on dangerous
ground. To disregard light is to reject it. {5T 680.2}
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Susan Williams
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posted 10-30-2005 10:08 AM
Sorry
Jackson. I do not reject the counsel of Ellen White because
you are intolerant. I reveal things that happen. That doesn't
mean that I "rail against government leaders" because you are
intolerant. You are inserting your intolerant guiding stick
and measures. It is also a very good thing that you brought up
this issue right at the time when my massive write-up is about
to be introduced. Your counterparts are everywhere over the
internet as the only still yet free media. The reason why the
government is so bold even to the shedding of blood indeed has
something to do with you. That is one reason why you are so
persistent and why this means so much to you.
The same points were brought out about the Adventist
leaders. Wherever there are problems, there will always be
found people ready, willing and able to attack the solutions.
Many were persistent like you in approach with Ellen White's
warnings quoting that we must never accuse. Then that we must
never attack church leaders. As soon as we wouldn't fall for
these misinterpretations, then came a barrage of accusations
against us.
The situation got so bad to this day, that church funds
were diverted to the Independent ministries and things got
worse, those leaders continued to do what caused all the unrest
and even loss of tithe revenue. Then when the latest president
first took the reigns and signaled that the church will resist
the changes, instantly he was criticized by so many who told
us that without condition, church leaders must not be
criticized.
You have even left some of my points cold. That includes
the fact that in Ellen White's day, anyone even remotely
revealing secret plottings were singled out and stood like a
sore-thumb that looked like a cult leader. Back then THINGS
WERE NOT NEARLY OBVIOUS as they clearly are now. The
instruction for buying bicycles back then do not hold today
because it is not a luxury item. So the instruction to just
keep quiet even while our soldiers are being executed in cold
blood BOTH BY THE INSURGENTS AND BY THEIR FELLOW COLLEAGUES is
instruction given by the enemy. The people have to know what
is happening and how to protect themselves from all killers
whether on the battlefield or the internet.
[We teach the people common sense the massive invasive
treason is struggling to overthrow!...] I don't have to guess that the Bush Administration had
anything to do with 911. Even biblically I can stand up and
say it is true. Certain rules always apply. I often watch the
Judge Judy Show, the Judge Mathis Show and other judge shows.
If there is an investigation of evidence and it is shown to
those judges that any of the litigants tried to obstruct it,
there is an automatic assumption that the party is guilty. On
those shows, if any of the litigants are asked plain and
simple questions, and then give the runaround and don't answer
clearly. After a time they will just immediately shut down the
case and assume that the person who did not answer has lost
his case. That is how it is with this system, thank God.
Jesuits make assumptions about me all the time, and they are
even the ones bringing all so much cautions about making
accusations to me. You are making accusations as we speak.
The write-ups we have been making shows what is happening
in the world scene. Even with the issues for world events,
we notice that non-Adventists gobble our information up far
more than those who claim to be Adventists. The outside
world is talking all the time about what is happening in
government even because we are keeping quiet and for the
same reason: fifth column babblers, anxious to always attack
the solutions become emotional and seek to confuse us.
If we listen to you we would look weird for not speaking
out about what's happening to anyone watching. People
everywhere are speaking out. I will repeat again, I don't even
have to call Bush's name. We have information that most don't:
the Democrats are behind Bush also, and that includes even
those condemning him. So are the Independents. Me just
revealing what is happening is not good news for those
committed either to treason or deception, but the cost of
keeping quiet is too huge. We defend the masses and not the
few in treason.
Take a sleeping pill or go to the doctor for your nerves.
He may provide you with another problem that you can
emotionally defend. Learn to be tolerant. Christians are.
I make an example:
We went to war because of a moral obligation. Evil people
we believed were creating weapons of mass destruction. Saddam
already said that he didn't have any. There was at least some
doubt. North Korea unveiled theirs newly made right in our
faces. In 1991 we badly beat Iraq, then held her under
no-fly-zones. We couldn't take chances with Iraq, but North
Korea didn't suffer from confusion. We had to ignore her.
Since then, in the fight for democracy, the nation is becoming
more and more secretive.--
[As you can see, we are doing much work and entering
into discussion. Jackson is not doing much thought,
even about the clear instructions we are giving him.
Here now is a golden opportunity for Jackson to make the
greatest impact with the following words Susan is going to
give him. Will he substantiate his reputation and deal
with the issue?...] Now show us how to put these words, that has so much to do
with the lives and well-being of millions of people so that we
do not suffer from your intolerant emotions.
Why tell us about Christianity when you are behaving like a
very distinct group that has just as much blood on their hands
that the future advancing soldiers who will leave unbelievable
carnage in their trails?
Here is one example on the following website now that is sure to
cause you very much anguish:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/ac/appealchapinfiltration4.htm
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Susan Williams
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posted 10-30-2005 02:41 PM
No one is
universally looked at as a cult member for giving this
information anymore. The people of the world are actually more
and more thirsting for it!
The Adventist faith has an advantage in that even
historically it was the only major Christian body that
accepted the book of Revelation with the attending info about
the end times. Then we acquired the Spirit of Prophecy, which
gave us more information. Others can tap from this even on
their own volition, and they don't even have to be members of
our faith.
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Susan Williams
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posted 10-30-2005 04:00 PM
I directed
all to the fourth article in the particular part of the
writeup dealing with infiltration. Naturally there are three
parts before that, starting with the first:
http://www.theirsecrets.info/ac/appealchapinfiltration.htm
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Jackson
unregistered
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posted 10-30-2005 04:11 PM
[Here is
Jackson now being given opportunity to do some work and explain
and get into the points we have given. Again, even with
the history of the rules of this forum, what will he do?
Watch him relentlessly take his stand and refuse to get into the
discussion:]Susan,
I don't know why you are judging me as intolerant. I'm
just presenting the testimonies to you. Why is it intolerant
to introduce you to some inspired warnings that you may not be
aware of?
This is a moment of truth for you. You have been introduced
to the plain word of the testimonies that warn you off the
very ground you are on. What will you do? Will you harden your
heart and keep piling justification upon justification and
excuse upon excuse, or will you submit to inspired cousel from
a messenger of the Lord? It is up to you.
Your arguing against the testimonies not against me.
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Susan Williams
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posted 10-30-2005 05:16 PM
You are
wasting time and you are redundant and you are bypassing
everything I have said to bring your intolerant conclusions.
You said the testimonies claimed not to "rail against"
government leaders, etc. Nor to present messages too harsh.
You first used your judgments as to what is too much or harsh,
though you see what is happening in world affairs and know
that no one is viewed as a dangerous cult for awakening the
people to what is happening.
You refused to show the differences between that time and
this one, including the thirst even for the non-religious to
find out about these things since they know what is happening.
There are also many other Ellen White quotes that shows the
time will come when the messages will be much more direct.
Right now what you are doing is repeating and dogmatically
exalting your conclusions. Even the points about assuming,
where I said anyone who obstructs an investigation is not only
guilty, but is to expect he would be considered that way, you
have ignored.
Sorry to make you feel bad, but if I have my way, I will
make you the most unhappy man alive!
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Jackson
unregistered
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posted 10-30-2005 05:45 PM
[Another
opportunity for Jackson to enter into the discussion and do some
work like we're doing...]Susan
said,"but if I have my way, I will make you the most unhappy
man alive!
Why would you want your way instead of the Lord's; and why
would you want to make me unhappy?
[This discussion then branched off to another thread.
What is written beyond these words came after Jackson was
expelled from this forum...]
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Susan Williams
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posted 11-02-2005 03:23 PM
We're
trying to figure out why you joined the Jesuit Order first
Jackson. Tell us how much they pay you.
Some new names have entered recently. Which one is you or
SDAzeal?
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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Susan Williams
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posted 11-02-2005 03:26 PM
Just two
days ago Mark Finley was on the 3ABN Network talking about
end-time prophecy. He was telling us what the two-horned beast
represents (the United States of America) and he was showing
what she was going to do. Jackson would be very upset to know
that the Lord commands that we tell the world what the US
government is going to do.
If you look up the links for the write-up we are giving
you, all are advised to protect themselves and give up the
idea of fighting the government. They are urged to move to
more remote places to more get out of their hands.
--------------------
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
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