Ernesto & Dirk have told us that Christ has ascended up into heaven and was set on the "right hand of God" in order to convince us that Jesus is not in some separate compartment of the Sanctuary continuing any service of Atonement.

Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Our response:
That expression is being used deceptively here. The expression, "on the right hand of God" does not imply a location, BUT A POSITION. It is not saying that there is a seat next to the throne of God the father, where some extraterrestrial "Crazy Glue" was spread on the seat of it, and Christ was forced to sit there. It is not implying that Christ cannot move and go where He wants. It is saying that Christ has been given a POSITION.

Therefore, when Christ descended to the earth in order to give John the Revelator the inspiration to write the book of Revelation, at that moment, was Christ not at the right hand of God? I assure you that Christ WAS STILL at the right hand of God, for that expression is talking about His position AND NOT His location.

Yes, Christ ministers in the Most Holy Place now after first ministering in the Holy Place until 1844. At that time, Christ STILL was at the right hand of God!

Ernesto and Dirk continue:

Christians are not made perfect during the Investigative Judgment period.  If we are "in Christ," then we were made perfect 2,000 years ago through Christ's perfect sacrifice on Calvary.  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom. 8:1 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Rom. 5:9.

Our Response:
Notice here again it is confirmed that Christians are saved from CONDEMNATION and not from judgment.  Remember that before the Sacrifice was even made, prophets were able to live righteously and with expectation of salvation.  Notice that this took place well before the Judgment.

Yes there are times when it would look like the judgment had already taken place, and yes there are times when it was necessary to have quick judgment.  Remember that at the last night of the Babylonian Empire, King Beltshazzar was told that he was weighed in the balances and was found wanting.  Remember that Uzzah was struck down before the presence of the Lord for touching the ark.  Yes there would be scattered examples and exceptions, even and especially when certain people threatened God's children.  More than likely before the Lord interposed and destroyed them, He judged them.  Nevertheless that great and last judgment scene would bring their cases up again for the benefit of the human and other witnesses in heaven, and also because during those Old Testament times, the sacrifice of Christ had not been made.  Our "Christ-centered" anti-Adventists continue:

Ernesto & Dirk:
Biblical Examples

Mrs. White said "all" must pass through the investigative judgment to determine whether or not they will be saved  -- (GC 1888, p. 483).

The Bible clearly shows that the cases of many people have already been decided prior to the Investigative Judgment:   The thief on the cross: More than 1800 years prior to the Investigative Judgment Jesus declared to the thief on the cross, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 22:43). The thief's case was determined in 33 A.D. when he repented and accepted Jesus on the cross.  This proves that Christ needs no Investigative Judgment to determine who will be in heaven. Why would he treat us any differently than the thief on the cross?

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: The Bible says Abraham was justified (accounted righteous) by faith (Rom. 4:2-5). Nearly 1800 years before the Investigative Judgment supposedly began Jesus declared:   And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 8:11

Apparently these men did not need to pass through the Investigative Judgment to determine their cases.

Moses: The Scriptures clearly states that Moses sinned, died and is now in heaven (Jude 9).  If everyone's sins are NOT blotted out until AFTER the investigative judgment, how could Moses enter heaven?  The Bible clearly states that no sinner will enter heaven (Rev. 21:27).

Moses' sins must have been blotted out prior to 1844!

Our Response:
Not only that, the book of Daniel also apparently PROVES, that the BEAST, HIS IMAGE, and THE FALSE PROPHET ALSO do not need a judgment, for the book of Daniel foretells their condition and that their bodies will be committed to the flames in the future judgment.  Do you understand what we are trying to say here?

Even though statements were made (and that through the uncanny ability of the Lord to predict the future) there will still be a formal judgment of everyone and everything for the benefit of everyone else who do not have minds that are infinite like the Lord's.

Ernesto and Dirk had continued to state that Ellen White declared that no one who rejected the Sabbath truth can be saved, but stated that William Miller was saved even though he rejected the Sabbath truth.  They wrote:

Ernesto & Dirk:
The Case of William Miller

Mrs. White stated that none could be saved who rejected the light upon the Sabbath:   If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light. Historical Sketches, p. 234

James White noted that William Miller, although acquainted with the Sabbath message, eventually rejected it:   "It is proper here to state that William Miller did not view the second message as we do.  Neither did he change his views upon the immortality and Sabbath questions." -- Sketches of the Christian Life and Public Labors of William Miller

Despite his rejection of the Sabbath light, Mrs. White indicates Miller will be saved.

Our Response:
Here the assumption is that William Miller rejected the Sabbath truth.  The statement of James White was that William Miller's views did not change.  It did not state that he rejected the Sabbath truth.  It was just like in the days of the 1844 message.  The assumption was that if you were not an Adventist by the time the October date of 1844 arrived, you rejected the message.  That was shown not to be true since converts were later added who lived through that time.  The message had not been clearly brought to these, or the message was intercepted by the same self-proclaimed Christ loving people.  From the very beginning William Miller went forth with a spirit of honesty and humility, even being reluctant to speak his views until others literally compelled him to preach upon it.  If you think this is not so you must compare his honesty with these on this forum who were clearly shown that the other churches made a worst blunder when they declared during the Millerite Movement that the book of Revelation was an incomprehensible mystery.

William Miller became engulfed with the enemies of truth.  The Great Disappointment undoubtedly also had a compelling impact upon him as the enemies of truth could not help but do all in their power to ridicule him through their "Christ-centeredness."  The shock of that disappointment evidently affected him for life, and the enemies of truth no doubt told him that his worst mistake was that he refused to acknowledge the voice of the majority like these are saying here today while simultaneously lying to us by telling us that everyone should speak their own minds.  Even now, just check the newsgroups and see the loving "Christ-centered" words being attributed to William Miller!  In the last message we viewed one wrote that it was proved that he was a "fool."  Nothing has changed!

Ernesto & Dirk:
The Truth of the Gospel

Jesus, as our substitute, was judged in our place on the cross. He paid the price for all sin for all time. His righteousness has been credited to our account. The good news of the judgment is that all who believe  and trust in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ can say with assurance, "I've been acquitted!" We have already been judged in Christ.  Those who reject the gospel, judge themselves unworthy of eternal life.   Those who accept the gospel have passed from death into life and will not enter into judgment (John 5:24).

Our Response:
Now they more than tell us that it is time to transgress His commandments further since we have been acquitted!  It is time to convince, and thence coerce everyone who dares to study the Revelation and declare that the Papacy is the Antichrist to stop and just conform to the order that is imposed upon us.  We can take away from the book of Revelation and be saved!  Oh that scripture that declares it is not true!  Who cares!  Let's just work some more till we gain more power, and we will FORCE people to obey what we say!   Let's continue to lie by presenting before our lies, the introductory concept that we respect everybody's opinions.  We love for people to speak their minds BECAUSE WE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN!!  Well, yes we do have to lie, but we have been told that we are saved anyway!!

There will be a formal judgment of everyone. That judgment is going on right now. Still, God will judge His people! The Judgment is not bad news to God's people. The Judgment is bad news to those who do not know God or who do not OBEY the Gospel.