The following is arguments against the Spirit of Prophecy that all of us will sooner or later encounter before hundreds, thousands, or maybe even millions of witnesses.  Some of the questions we may not have encountered before, and there are far more questions which have the power to overwhelm us unless we understand them.  It is important that these be reviewed.  Some names have been changed in order to protect the innocent.

Dear Friends,

One of those posting against Ellen White in this we are responding to is Dirk Andersen.  Dirk Andersen claims to be a former Adventist of many years.  He, like most all the rest of the suspicious people dominating forums, claims that he since found "the truth" about Ellen White, and then a peace which passeth all understanding suddenly engulfed him.  He has thence developed elaborate webpages denouncing her and Adventism under the pretext that all must preach CHRIST PLUS NOTHING!  His anti-Ellen White, Anti-Adventist website is among the most elaborate on the internet.  He adds to the list those who do such a suspicious and inordinate form of evangelism for the world. Compare his form of evangelism to those of your own churches that seek to lift up Christ to the people, and you will begin to understand what I'm saying here. You can find it at the following website:

http://www.ellenwhite.org

When you catch them on internet discussion forums and newsgroups however, their constant subject is Ellen White, and the doctrines of Adventism.  It doesn't bother them to have it so while they tell us we must focus exclusively upon Christ.  But that is not all.  These always thence adopted a completely different Revelation prophecy theology.  When asked who is the Beast of Revelation, they come up with all different kinds of theories away from the Papacy, and they do not explain how they have come to such a transformation merely from viewing that Ellen White is, according to them, a "false profit."

Ellen White did not create the Revelation interpretation that the Seventh-day Adventist Church now has. There was a time when ALL the Protestant Churches unanimously declared that the Papacy was the Antichrist, or the Beast of the Revelation (666). The Protestant Reformation unanimously declared that the Papacy was the Antichrist.  Doesn't this show them to be quite suspicious?

So many other things are evident showing that their agenda is purely papal.  We therefore see actually why they have discovered that Ellen White is, according to them, a "false profit," (the name they use to show that Ellen White fabricated all her writings for the purposes of personal gain) and why she and Adventism must constantly be attacked under the premise that we must focus upon nothing but Christ for a New Church Order.

If the issues being perverted by Ernesto Gil and Dirk Anderson were funny, then we would consider these people as purely a joke.  Since the issues are not, let me see what we can do here to clear away the rubbish.  We already had a great hunch that these two worked together.  Let's see again what they're telling us.

Before we proceed, let us add something here that was not added before to this page. We have to present the fact that Ernesto and Dirk, in arguing against Adventist Doctrine, posted publicly that all consideration for the Investigative Judgment must be false because the scriptures tell us that when Jesus ascended to heaven, He ascended to sit at the "right hand of the Father." There are many scriptures that mention this, including Hebrews 8:1.

They therefore conclude that since Jesus ascended to heaven in order to sit at the right hand of God, that meant that He is also in the same compartment with God the Father, and therefore the Adventist perspective telling the world that Christ after His ascension had been ministering in the Holy or second compartment of the Sanctuary, while God the Father is in the Most Holy or third compartment, demonstrates that Christ is not sitting next to the Father. Therefore Christ is not sitting on His right hand or at the right hand of God.

Now let us demonstrate to you that this is silly reasoning and logic. The expressions that tells us that Christ ascended to the right hand of God, isn't talking about a location, but rather about a position. Christ has been elevated to be at the right-hand man of God the Father. That does not mean that someone placed Crazy Glue on a seat or throne next to God the Father, and that gave Christ the title of being on the right hand of God. Christ can move anywhere and go anywhere He may deem to, and He would still be the right-hand man of God the Father.

Jesus descended and confronted Paul on the road to Damascus, blinding him. During that particular time, since Christ was no longer in heaven with God the Father (now possessing a human body), did that mean that Christ was no longer at the right-hand of God?

Some 60 years after His death on the cross, Christ descended to give the special Revelations to John on the Isle of Patmos. When Christ therefore descended to earth to give that message, was He still on the right-hand of God the Father? The answer to these questions is YES. He still was always there, because the expression does not command a location, but rather a position.

Both Jesus and God the Father can move out from the compartments of the Sanctuary at any time. Their duties and positions do not necessarily confine them to those places. Let us now get to the points and discussion at hand:

On 01/16/99, "Ernesto Gil" wrote:
The Investigative Judgment
By Ernesto Gil and Dirk Anderson,

Ernesto & Dirk write:
Mrs. White and the Adventist pioneers developed a unique doctrine which is described as the "Investigative Judgment."

Our Response:
They got together and secretly concocted this doctrine?  And why should we be interested in the "conspiracy theories" of Ernesto and Dirk?  These have already spent enough time on the forums ridiculing us for focusing on "conspiracies" and developing what they called "a conspiracy-centered gospel" instead of focusing on Christ.  How can they fall to the same thing so easily, and yet without the slightest shame??

Again, the first thing to note here is the fact that these also DO NOT RESPECT OPINIONS.  In order to let their opinions in to conquer us, they always put ahead of their agenda the mandate that all views be respected and that we are to entertain all kinds of differing views.  Their cries to have people speak their minds is an endeavor to fool you so that you can allow forbidden views and opinions to infiltrate the Adventist Church:  THEIRS!  Once you allow the principle of debate in order for us to question everything, then will be the start of their campaign to overthrow us by insisting that we must adopt their views. You will then hear literally nothing but that Adventism must change and retreat to their views, all the Adventist media will censor our the views of those who do not agree, and you will constantly hear them covering what they are doing by constantly claiming that we have a problem with their revisions of everything only because they disagree with our views.  We appeal to you therefore to open your eyes and do not presume to charge those who fight for liberty with being despots.

Yet Ernesto and Dirk add:

This doctrine teaches that Christ began investigating and judging His people in 1844. He started with the dead believers and will begin judging the living believers near the end of time. During this Investigative Judgment God either blots out  the sins of the believer, or he removes the name of the believer from the Book of Life. When His judgment is complete, the door of probation will be shut and Jesus will return to earth to reward His people according to their works. Let us examine this doctrine to determine if it is logically and Biblically sound.

Ellen White: Every name is examined, starting with Adam.  "As the books of record are opened in the Judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. BEGINNING WITH THOSE WHO FIRST LIVED UPON THE EARTH, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected." -- The Great Controversy [1888 edition], p. 483

BIBLE: God already knows who are His own "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep" John 10:14 "The Lord knoweth them that are His" 2 Tim. 2:19.

According to the Bible, God already knows who are His sheep. He does not need 155 years to determine who is saved and who is lost.

Our Response:
Ernesto and Dirk are here saying that because the Lord is Omniscient, there will be no judgment. Is that what the Scriptures say? We know that the Scriptures tell us that God is omniscient. We also know that the Scriptures tell us that there will be a judgment. That's why in Daniel and Revelation the Lord tells us there will be a judgment of the Beast and the False Prophet, and literally tells us what the verdict will be! Why stage a judgment if you will already prophecy what the verdict will be?

They continue:

Ernesto & Dirk:
Ellen White: Every individual MUST pass the Investigative Judgment.  "How important, then, that every mind contemplate often the solemn scene when the Judgment shall sit and the books shall be opened, when, with Daniel, EVERY INDIVIDUAL MUST STAND IN HIS LOT, at the end of the days." -- The Great Controversy [1888 edition], p. 483

BIBLE: Believers in Christ do not enter into judgment "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24 RSV

Our Response:

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing,

***WHETHER IT BE GOOD,

*** or whether it be evil.

The expression "whether it be good, or whether it be evil," shows that the saints are involved in this process, for they are the ones who do good. Yet please allow me also to go around their different version bible and give you the real message the Lord is trying to bring out here. That scripture they gave us (John 5:24) actually says:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Look closely and notice that it says that those who hear Christ's words shall not enter into CONDEMNATION. They shall indeed enter into judgment as Ecclesiastes has told us, BUT THEY WILL NOT ENTER INTO CONDEMNATION. There is a big difference between the two. O.J. Simpson entered into judgment, BUT HE DIDN'T ENTER INTO CONDEMNATION. The guarantee is that if you hear the Word of the Lord, you will not suffer loss because of the judgment, though you will be judged.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, WHETHER IT BE GOOD OR BAD.

When the author therefore uses the word "WE," what is that supposed to mean?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. -- Hebrews 10:30

Ernesto & Dirk:
Ellen White: Our sins are NOT BLOTTED OUT until AFTER the investigative judgment.

"But, according to the unerring word of God, every man will be judged and rewarded according as his works have been, and we are admonished to so speak and to so do as 'they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.' When sin has been repented of, confessed, and forsaken, then pardon is written against the sinner's name; BUT HIS SINS ARE NOT BLOTTED OUT UNTIL AFTER THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT." -- The Signs of the Times, May 16, 1895

BIBLE: Our sins are blotted out when we repent "I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee." Isaiah 44:22.

Our Response:
Do not be fooled by this.  Blotted out meant blotted out from the Sanctuary in heaven. The sins are already forgiven, but the record is still there nonetheless. What Ellen White said is understandable in light of the Sanctuary.  The sinner brings the spotless innocent victim and confesses his sin upon its head.  He then kills the victim.  After that is done, the sinner can go home, but yet other things are done.  Why?  BECAUSE THEY ARE NECESSARY.  They are done to teach a lesson of how things are done in heaven.

One way to get around Satan's agents is to understand that interpretation of scripture doesn't always go according to the language of your time.  An example can be seen by viewing when the scripture they brought was written.  Look at it closely and you will see that we have a problem.  We see that the scripture they brought us came from the book of Isaiah.  The Lord told His people that He had blotted out their sins.  Is that true according to our understanding of the situation?  If it is:  if God really blotted out their sins, HEY CHRIST DOESN'T NEED TO COME THEN!!!!  Why would Christ come then if their sins are already blotted out?  How could the Lord use the past tense stating that their sins had been blotted out, when the Great Sacrifice had not come?  Open your eyes please and understand.  They will use your 20th and 21st century understanding to try and trick and fool you.     "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, WHEN THE TIMES OF REFRESHING SHALL COME FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD." Acts 3:19

And why is this Apostle regarding this event yet future?

Ernesto & Dirk:
"and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." 1 John 1:7    Ellen White: By 1850, Jesus' work was "almost finished" "I then saw Brother Edson that he must gird on the whole armor and stand in readiness to go, for a journey was before him, and that souls needed help and that JESUS' WORK WAS ALMOST FINISHED IN THE  SANCTUARY..." (1850) Manuscript Releases Vol. 6, p. 250

BIBLE: The Atonement was finished on the Cross Jesus said, "It is finished." John 19:30.  But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb. 10:12-14

The Bible teaches that Christ's atonement on the cross has perfected  (past tense) His children.

Our Response:
The bible does say that the sacrifice is finished once and for all.  Where however did we understand that the sacrifice is the entire atonement?  Are you sure Ernesto and Dirk did not willingly and with much wiliness deliberately add these words?  Is that all that happened in the Ancient Sanctuary?  There you see their persistence on the PAST TENSE, and how readily they can deceive you because of common understanding placed against Scripture.  The Sacrifice had been made and ALL is finished according to them.  By statements like these it appears that they are so so Christian and loving of Christ.  Yet, if what they were saying was true, why then hadn't Christ come?  This is another thing they will have to skirt around.  There was something called the Day of Atonement, and that day took place long after the sacrifice was made in the rituals.  After the atonement was made historically, then was time for judgment.  All who were not found afflicting their souls and confessing their sins, were put to death, for the king was to actually appear before them after the judgment was over.  That whole ritual was a type scenario of what would actually happen much later in heaven.  After the Atonement is completed in heaven, then Christ will come and execute judgment upon all according to their works. THAT IS THE ONLY THING HOLDING HIM BACK RIGHT NOW. He completed the Sacrifice of the Atonement, and is now judging the world for the sharing out of the benefits of that Sacrifice.

Is the atonement finished at the cross?  If that is so, do you or anyone else pray for forgiveness?  Why?  What happens when your prayers ascend up to heaven?  Is there an High Priest up there taking note?  The scriptures tell us that there is!  If the Atonement was therefore finished, why is there an High Priest in heaven, and what is that He is doing?  Again, what has Christ been doing in heaven these 2,000 years if the Atonement was finished since the cross?  We have heard some of the most ridiculous answers on internet discussion forums!

It was already pointed out that if you steal $500 dollars from a person and then work hard to pay it back and soon acquire the money again, it would be no use unless that money is given directly back to the person whom the debt is owed.  If you punish yourself and work to acquire that money, and then threw it in the garbage, your case is still just as bad as the day you stole the money.  In the case of Christ as is shown in the sanctuary, after the lamb was killed, the priest didn't go home.  He had much work to do.  Ultimately the sacrifice had to be brought before the face of the Father whose wrath all humanity must flee from.  That is the only way to flee from the "wrath to come." The sacrifice is brought before the face of the executioner of judgment where those who accept the gift will be pardoned.  God has a government in heaven, and through the Scriptures He has shown us that things will be done decently and in order.

1 Thess.1:10  And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

After Christ rose from the dead, He didn't interact with the people first.  HE HAD TO GO TO HIS FATHER TO FIND OUT IF HIS SACRIFICE WAS SUFFICIENT.  If it wasn't, Christ would have come back and suffered yet more to make sure that His sacrifice had been accepted.  After He found out that it was accepted, then He came back.  But yet something else happened that made the situation uniquely interesting.

Matt. 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Here we see that some of the human family were also raised with Christ.  We have seen how there were 24 elders of the human family in heaven.  What were they doing there?

Here we can see why the Judgment actually took place after the death of Christ.  After the sacrifice then salvation is confirmed, all the past promises in the Old Testament are confirmed.  The Lord then takes some of the human family with Him also to witness the judgment.  That's why the book of Daniel gives us the timetable for the Investigative Judgment:

Dan. 7:8  I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Here it is talking about the persecution dished out by Rome.  It continues by saying:

9  I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10  A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: THE JUDGMENT WAS SET,  AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED.

As we can see here there is a special gathering for judgment. The chronology expressed here is after the crimes that were committed by Rome.  Surely this is more logical since it shows the reason why Christ has not appeared yet.  One of the reasons this judgment is going on, is to review the crimes of Rome.  And why is Rome being tried?  Isn't God's mind infinite and doesn't He already know the crimes of Rome?

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Here the Lord is predicting the future.  The events being described did not take place yet.  Why then would he predict a judgment, when He already knows the crimes and who will be saved and lost?  Notice that the beast was slain as an execution of the judgment that had already taken place.