JESUIT DIALOGUES !!
Harvey Plunkett's Challenge! Part II
Updated 11/15/2003: made easy to print out
The following email attests to the fact that Harvey Plunkett, in his challenge to our website, did not sufficiently read the information posted about the Investigative Judgment.
From:
Jerry Valen [Whoever@netzero.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 9:51 PM
To: tmac1238@seventh-dayadventism.com; whoever@wherever.net; harvplun@wherever.net
Subject: Harvey Plunkett's Email on the IJ
Dear Ted,
The very purpose of the visit of the Angel to Daniel was to reveal for the saints
at the end of the world, the approximate time for the closing up of world events.
After talking about the workings of the Little Horn, the scripture says:
Daniel 8:19 And
he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the
indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
That is the purpose for the visit of the angel: to let
God's people in the future have some idea about the closing up of events.
It was not to teach us about the Little Horn as some have contended. So
many tell us it is to learn about the Little Horn, and they refuse to even tell
us who the Little Horn is. That is not of awesome concern to the saints
especially at a time when the Little Horn was not even known. At that
time, every saint knew that a time was coming when the world will end, but at
the time of Daniel, no one knew about a Little Horn that would persecute God's
people. The visit was to let God's people of the end time to understand
precisely when the Judgment would start in heaven, and to then let them have
some idea when it will finish with Christ's Second Coming. This was especially
important since special preparation must be made for the appearance of the Lord,
as was typified by the Ancient Day of Atonement. The saints HAVE TO be forewarned
about this. That was the actual reason for the visit to Daniel. It was always
assumed that the ending of the Judgment will closely follow its beginning.
Here now is the dialogue just before that will show us that the Investigative
Judgment will be delayed because of the activities of the Little Horn:
Daniel 8:11 Yea,
[the Little Horn] he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by
him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast
down.
12 And
an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered.
13 Then
I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which
spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the
transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden
under foot?
14 And
he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary
be cleansed.
The subject was about the Judgment, more specifically
when it will begin, for at the end of the Judgment is Christ's Second Coming.
The scripture is here showing that the Little Horn will impose itself to curtail
and delay the expected judgment. The Papacy made situations inappropriate
for the Lord to judge at that moment. There is no way the judgment could
have started then, for, as one particular fact we noticed in the ancient rituals,
who would even be scripturally knowledgeable to herald the approach of the judgment
when bible truth was so much suppressed during the Dark Ages? To herald
the approach of the Judgment was a requirement shown in the rituals. Who
would study out the matter and herald its approach? The bible was not
even allowed to be in the possession of anyone at that time. The rituals
show us that the event MUST BE HERALDED IN ADVANCE. There was the Feast of Trumpets
to alert the people of the crucial hour. All that was to demonstrate future
events where the Lord will also commission people to herald the approach of
the Judgment, after which comes wrath and finally the Second Coming of Christ.
We therefore see that the revelation of the judgment was engineered in such
a way that it was sealed away from all the saints before the end of time, lest
they become snug in believing that Christ would not return for a long long time,
and it was done in such a way that the actual time of the Second Coming will
ALWAYS be out of the knowledge of God's people.
According to Harvey, the event of the cleansing of the Sanctuary (the end of
the 2300 days prophecy) did not even take place yet now even though the Little
Horn has been suppressed as the prophecy has shown, leaving nothing to hinder
the judgment. The Dark Ages had passed more than 200 years ago.
[As far as we know, actually the Dark Ages passed some 400 years ago. More than 200 years ago was when the Protestant Reformation gave Rome its "deadly wound." What is being stated is that the "deadly wound" period was the perfect time to start the Judgment, and it was indeed about the very time that the Judgment started.]
The days of the brightest lights
had past when the Moody Bible Institute and other institutions pushed the bible
to a height it had never seen before for centuries. Since the Papacy at
that time lost her power, why couldn't the Lord have started the Judgment by
now? The message was showing that the activities of the Papacy would delay
the final events of the judgment and all.
Ted, for your information, if the 2300 year/days started in 538 A.D., that would
mean that the start of the cleansing of the sanctuary will be in the year 2838!
Even for the start of the Judgment or the end of it leading to the Second Coming,
this date is beyond absurd! It surpasses even Buck Rogers!
[May I also add that it would contradict all the statements of how the Atonement was completed at the cross?]
Harvey wrote:
In closing, it should be understood I am not attacking SDAs for those things
we hold in common concerning the doctrines of salvation in Christ in general.
I am aware that so many who have left the church do cast aside, or some how
forget what they were taught of Christ's sacrifice of love and forgiveness.
It still is my understanding, from the Scriptures, that our general approach
as, a christian body amid all Christianity, at least from an academic point
of view, is on the more sound "Scriptural basis with regard to Christ's
love, Christ's Morals.
I respond:
Harvey is here therefore giving us the same motif as all the enemies of the
faith on the forums and elsewhere: attacks our distinctive doctrines and then
pushes the motion for us to de-emphasize or even ignore them to focus on the
more ecumenical concerns.
[Mr. Plunkett is ecumenical.
That means that he works for and is trained by Rome. All such are usually unscrupulous
also. We will soon see if that is his problem also.]
I would say that since all the others are doing what Harvey
is talking about, and are yet committed to destroying all emphasis on distinctive
doctrines and the prophecies for an ecumenical agenda, it is safe to leave one
denomination to at least keep the prophecies alive and preserve some form of
variety.
Harvey:
The greatest obstruction we hold in our way, of progression in the truth of
the Mind of Christ, is personal or collective organizational pride.
"White Stone" mailto:harvplun@wherever.net
I respond:
Usually those with false ideas cannot refrain from the judgments, especially
since they preach against it and preach for diverse and free thinking. The church
doesn't agree with Mr. Harvey, and so, believing in free thinking in the ecumenical
conspiracy, he naturally would have a problem with that. The Organizational
pride here appears to hit on the Adventist Church thinking that it is apart
from the others in collecting to itself distinctive doctrines of a specific
nature. There appears to be some discomfort in the fact that the Adventist
Church claims to be the true church. Why does this bother so many professed
Christians? I call it the sickness of ecumenism. It is a sickness that
would be soothed if they really did focus on Christ, and not on deceiving and
trying to capture power back away from Protestants. There is just too much focus
on control, revolution, infiltration and power for them to be serious about
telling us to focus on Christ.
And what would anyone think if the words posted by you Harvey were under the
listing of an organization?
Jerry
Click here to see My response email to Jerry, and then to see the final response by Harvey.