JESUIT DIALOGUES !! VIII
Updated 12/27/2005
[At this time Emmanuel, realizing that their discussion did not quite align with the topic of the thread on Atoday, moved the discussion over to another one called at the time, "The Enemies of Freedom vs. The Friends of Freedom."
EC suffered the charge by the Jesuit posters of being disrespectful of those who disagreed with his views. If you ever wondered about those famous Dark Ages tribunals that afforded not the slightest bit of equity or justice, you merely need to take a look at those who are presenting the new and must-have Gospel of the Pope. All throughout the ages the issue that the Gospel is NOT FORCEFUL has been presented to Rome with no success. Here are the same arguments being presented to Rome through her unscrupulous infiltrators here in the Adventist Church! Consider the charge, consider Tom's postings, and then consider what follows. Understand now that EC is well on his way toward taking a hike or being expelled from this "free" forum.
Now in the following post, EC brings proof that it was not he who was disrespecting the honest views of others. He is providing proof that he did not demand the beliefs of anyone on that forum to change or be surrendered. He is presenting proof that Tom, Jodi and the other posters are. He is doing this in response to the accusations against him by one posting under the name of Ralph Thompson, who told him that he needs to understand that the forum is big enough for a variety of views that differ from his. No, Tom did not receive any such warning or accusation from Ralph Thompson:]
By Emmanuel Clarke (Emmanuel) on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 04:18 pm:
The Despots vs. God's Church.
Where are these two contending factions and how can we identify each class of
actors in the never-ending drama.
We have complained that there are some posting on Atoday who are demanding that
we give up our Adventist views and accept their ecumenical views. In response
to that, a number of people have posted in to teach us that we must understand
that there is room on the forum for people who disagree with us, even after
we have complained about the constant nagging of Jodi and others that we must
give up our views. They are telling us that we are the ones who demand that
all think like us. We therefore see that there is a problem identifying the
despots from the Christians.
Since the discussion was off of the topic that we are actually discussing, I
had decided to start a thread that deals with the issues entitled, "The
Despots vs. God's Church." In this thread it is hoped that the people will
understand where the despots actually are and will look beyond all lip service
in claims to the actual cold facts of who or where is asking that the views
and even organization of the other change.
A good way to understand the issues at hand will be to visit this link in the
Truth of Adventism Defended website:
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/Authority.html
Then we should deal with the issues at hand.
Let me therefore submit some statements that were made by Jodi and Tom to backup
our statement that the problem lies with them always demanding that we give
up our Adventist views. On December 27, 1999 Tom posted in these comments:
"EC; Take a deep breath and a good look around the Adventist community.
The "majority" of thinking Adventists of have left the church a long
time ago. See the empty pews and look at the decimated ministry. See the exiled
Dr. Ford and note that the Gospel cannot be found anywhere in the "27".
Also, note the never ending leadership corruption, the communist style censorship,
the theological cover-ups and the continued lack of mission and message. (The
health message died years ago)."
EC: Just what is Tom here
trying to tell us? He is trying to tell us that our church must change. The
problem is that we do not agree with him. He is trying to tell us that the cause
of all these conditions he is talking about (and many of which have been shown
to be untrue) he claims has been caused by the special doctrines and revelations
the Adventist Church has received, and also by corruption in high places. He
has stated that the Gospel can't be found in the 27 fundamental beliefs. I had
since posted and demonstrated that statement is false, and all I noticed was
him evading the points.
What is presented here by Tom are statements that well deserve the accusations
Ralph and Rhoda laid at our feet. Tom needs to understand that this forum has
room for people who disagree with his views and that we are all wonderfully
blessed. But yet there is more:
Tom: "While you are at it, try to find any NT justification for our unbiblical
tithe based hierarchical system. You could win $10,000 if you can defend this
fraud from scripture alone! (see the tithe string on atoday forum ) Why on earth
you would defend this debacle from gospel reform is beyond my comprehension?
Perhaps you have family on the church payroll?"
EC: Why is Tom making these
charges and pointing things out that I do not agree with? It is because he is
demanding that we change our views and that the church changes. But there is
MUCH more. Tom writes on the same day:
Tom: As for the concept that the three angels messages are closed, I note that
you have failed to read your Adventist history correctly for it is a historical
fact beyond dispute that the first two messages were closed up BEFORE the third
was ever discovered! "
EC: We see here that Tom
is ripe for a tongue-lashing from Ralph. But guess what? He will not receive
it. I am merely presenting backup to demonstrate that the problem lies with
them. Can they produce any statement made by us where we have told Jodi, Tom,
or any of the others who are against Adventism that we asked them to relinquish
their views? Well yes. We have asked them to relinquish the view that we must
believe as they believe and submit to the changes they have mandated. Beyond
that, we did not tell them to change their beliefs.
But there's more. Tom writes on that same day:
Tom: As for the prophetic concept that the three angels messages are alive and
well today, here is a news flash about that; It is a 20th century myth that
has never been true at any time in the history of the Adventist Apocalyptic.
I understand that many, many, SDA's think it is true because this is what was
taught, but like a number of other things it was never true. Not one SDA pioneer
would support that myth. . . .
Also, while I am glad that you don't support a hierarchical system of corrupt
control, I am mystified that you think that church management can be changed
without reforming church doctrine. Your statement that "I wouldn't mind
if you changed that, for in that you are not changing doctrine" is sheer
fantasy. To change the organizational system involves major doctrinal reform,
including removing the false NT tithe doctrine that fuels our unbiblical church
organizational model. There is plenty of scripture on this topic for you to
study on the tithe string if you really want. Most people are shocked when they
discover that there is no such doctrine as NT tithe. This NT tithe doctrine
is another one of those myths that needs to be corrected. And this correction
will lead to a different and much more open, democratic and biblical organizational
structure.
EC: As open, democratic
and biblical as the words you are reading now which allows for none of this!
Do we see clearly here that Tom is demanding that we must change our views?
Why was nothing said about this noted detestable characteristic?
Tom: As for Ellen White, no one is trying to "eliminate" her as you
have charged. She is dead you know? We cannot really pull her into any contemporary
discussion.
EC: Is there any room for
anyone who disagrees with this false statement?
Tom: It is written that the dead know not anything. Your EGW quotes are taken
way out of context. If she were on line with us today, she would not support
your position as you think. And she would laugh at your notion that the three
angels are all flying together. She would also cry at how the church has treated
Dr. Ford and the gospel.
EC: So here we find that
Tom is not in opposition to Ellen White, but we must not use her in contemporary
discussion. "The dead know not anything" Tom quotes to follow the
same agenda Jodi follows in telling us we must remove Ellen White from our beliefs.
If we did that, would that allow their views in and allow them to take control?
Still yet, since the dead know not anything, who would want to read the writings
of Moses, Paul, and even John the Revelator?
Tom: She would also roll over in her grave if she knew how corrupt and "off
message" the church has become. She spent her life building up the 3rd
angels message--including the now dead health message-and she would be in tears
to see it ruined and irrelevant on the eve of the 21st century. You are clueless
about both James and Ellen White as well as historic Adventism and what it stood
for. Let them rest in peace.
In conclusion, get out the history books, open the scriptures and your eyes
and start learning what the real issues are all about. Perhaps you can become
part of the solution instead of the problem.
EC: Oh there is so much
more convicting evidence against Tom, it's incredible! But now let's see if
Jodi has the same problem before we deal with the problem of Ralph and Rhoda
telling us that we need to understand that there is room on this forum for people
who differ with us. Even within our view was posted March 14th by Jodi:
"Ulrike, what do you
honestly think would happen to Adventism if we would "Throw Ellen White
far, far away?"
EC: There is much more
evidence against Jodi also which we can easily find. Why would Jodi ask such
a thing, when she already knows what Ralph is trying to frame us for: to understand
that there is room for people to disagree with us both on this forum and in
the church? Where did we ever tell Jodi or Tom that they have to relinquish
ecumenism or any of their views? We are waiting for the evidence that would
justify the postings of Rhoda and Ralph. Can these post where we have asked
for them to relinquish their views in order to justify the charges they laid
at our feet?
EC
[EC here now responds directly to the charge laid out against him by another strange poster under the name of Ralph Thompson, who bypassed Tom Norris in order to tell EC that he is intolerant and disrespectful of those who disagree with his views:]
By Emmanuel Clarke on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 04:20 pm:
Ralph a .thompson (Ralpht) on
Saturday,
March 18, 2000 - 05:55 am wrote:
Brother Clarke My apologies for any offence but I when I first came to this
forum as the result of an invitation of one G Tichy;Jodi was a member of the
SDA church and a Sabbath School teacher no less.I saw her as a sister then and
I still do in spite of or because of the way others in her congregation dealt
with her searchings.
It is completely understandable that she responds in different ways at different
times Most honest seekers for truth do that.and it should be encouraged not
condemned.
[Of course this statement
is filled with gross lies of a high quality deception. EC therefore mimicks
the words of Mr. Thompson in order to show all that he is willfully inconsistent
and does not care what he has to do to attain his ends:]
EC: It is completely understandable
that Ulrike and EC respond in different ways at different times. Most honest
seekers for truth do that, and it should be encouraged not condemned by posts
such as submitted by Ralph.
Ralph: I do agree that
at times some of the posters here have been very unkind to Ulrike also and that
is not acceptable as well.
EC: Find the time then
to post about it as you always come up with the time to post against the few
who are encompassed by the many.
Ralph: If the spirit of
Christ does not teach us manners love and compassion for each other it is probably
not working in us at all.
EC: That spirit needs to
teach us to be consistent when preaching about love and compassion. It is supposed
to be likely that the preaching be preached to the underdog and not to those
who have surrounded them. It should be preached to those who demand we relinquish
our views, and not to those who believe in basic human liberties.
[Ralph Thompson sees the
necessity for continually inserting accusations and directing the minds of the
readers toward things that are not true. Note the accusations as he continues.
It could be that he realizes that the arguments of the Adventists are too strong
to overcome. The question is, did these people even appear on the forums in
order to talk? Does Rome ever just talk?]
Ralph: This is a forum for discussion
and the exchange of ideas. It should not be a contest where we have winners
or loosers. It should be a place where the confused and questioning ones can
find comfort and hope not condemnation.
EC: Why tell us that this
is not a contest against winners or losers? What has Jodi and her friends not
used in order to win at all costs? Is this even just a forum for discussion?
What about all the other forums? Is there a prize to be won? Are our discussions
merely originated here and ended here? Sorry, but we also see our church changing
to what Jodi presents. There appears to be a grand prize connected with these
forums. Basically the first thing we can all clearly see is that you are unbalanced
against your own claims. As with the others, you can claim to see mistakes in
Jodi or the others who are against the truth, but you can only find the time
to post against the minority.
What advice would you tell Christ who had to entangle himself at times with
the arguments of the Pharisees? Would you ignore all the Pharisees had done
to tell Christ that there are to be no winners or losers? You are inserting
cunning accusations against us here, as usual.
The thing is that Christ's arguments were strong like ours. It had the power
to silence the Pharisees. Today, our competitors still do not answer the questions,
but they are not silenced. They move around the points and questions and fill
them in with other questions, with idle comments and with accusations that always
pass by your eyes just like your subtle accusations here. The Pharisees were
more virtuous in that aspect. They did not come back around with other questions,
nor were they skilled in using idle tactics. They were therefore silenced.
As a matter of fact, you do some of the same things, for you did not deal with
my already posted statements that Jodi and Tom are asking us to relinquish our
views. You ignored them completely, and rather came back with this post to cunningly
insert that we are the ones demanding that the views of Jodi and the rest change.
You did not accuse us directly of stating that we must relinquish our views.
You came in a nice way to accuse us of what Jodi is doing.
There is a reason why all your posting of correction is directed at us. No,
we must not accuse Jodi, but she gets away with accusing us? We were not condemned
by Jodi? Do you know what legalists are? Do you know that Tom already called
me a communist repeatedly? I already told you and showed you the changing modes
of Jodi. I had shown that she is questioning when the need arrives, but that
often she is telling us what the facts are and what we are despite what you
claim is this arena for discussion. If she says something about us, and we tell
the forum that it is not true, she claims preeminence over what we know about
our own selves. Tom does the same thing, but you never notice. Why? We are getting
to see that you do it also.
Can you please once and for all and candidly tell us why you and Rhoda are so
keen in vision to what you claim are our mistakes when we post, and are completely
blind when they post? Why acknowledge that they have made mistakes in attitude
and other aspects when posting, but only succeed in replying to the people who
are not telling them that they must let go of their views? What mistakes have
they made? Are you specific about what you claim are ours, but would not touch
theirs?
[It is now time for Ralph
Thompson to show himself. As he just told us that there is room on the forum
for people to disagree, it is now time for him to make bold statements that
no one will be allowed to disagree with about Ellen White as he did with EC.
He is then going to use the continuing Jesuit strategy of charging God's people
with lacking a spirit of love, and he must be blind to anything that Tom Norris
does.
He is bold now, for all of them have figured out that they have no reason to fear reprisals from any Adventists. They have it firm in their minds that their plans have been successful and that the majority of God's people are asleep and useless.
THEIR HUNCHES ARE CORRECT!]
Ralph: If you can read EGW and
not see the inconsistencies in her message well and good her messages will probably
be a blessing to you if and only if they give you a more Christlike spirit.
EC: Oh you are cunning
brother Thompson! It is not a Christlike spirit to dictate to us that there
are inconsistencies in the messages of Ellen White as you have just done. When
have you proved this to the point where we don't need discussion forums about
the topic anymore? There is room on this forum for others who do not share your
beliefs, sir! How forgetful we are, EVEN WHILE TEACHING OTHERS TO REMEMBER!
Oh! What an unkind statement I just made against you brother Thompson! I must
hate you, brother Thompson, just because you believe differently and disagree
with me! That was an accusation Jodi made against us without a problem.
No, we don't believe that there are inconsistencies in the messages of Ellen
White, and you need to be tolerant enough to realize that. You get a "10"
for that cunning remark, and we already see that there is no fruit in dialoguing
with you either.
[Ralph Thompson now endeavors
to reveal his concealed hatred of Ellen White and the thirst for blood is also
well concealed:]
Ralph: If on the other hand the
results of your study of EGW makes you harsh and judgemental to those around
you then her messages have come from deepest hell indeed.
EC: Why did you push the
"IF" in your statement. Have you noticed that Jodi has been judgmental
of us? Are you telling me that Ulrike and myself are the only problems here?
Of course you all are. You just pushed that statement in order to yourself insert
the idea that we are harsh and judgmental. You also inserted the statement in
order to give the illusion that EGW's writings are from hell. Go back to the
posts and see the great comments Jodi, Tom, Rhoda, and even you yourself have
made against us. You can start by just the statement you just made. I see many
accusations within it placed. No, of course you don't see it.
Sorry, but WE ARE ALL BLESSED OF GOD. No, we don't believe that we have been
harsh and judgmental. You need to come to terms with the words you preach against
us. We don't believe that Ellen White has inconsistencies, nor that she is a
plagiarist. You need to open your eyes to the benefits of discussion you have
already talked about. Yes, people do not always agree with you, and you need
to come to terms with that just like Jodi.
Ralph: Not one of us can
gaze into the depths of anothers heart.
EC: You need to reread
your post with your subtle accusations to see if you exempted yourself from
this principle also. Jodi claims the ability to gaze into the depths of the
hearts of others and frequently does. Even you do, for you have already inserted
post-hypnotic suggestions into the minds of all against us and completely let
the more numerous mob go free.
Ralph: To pretend we can
is to usurp the perogatives of God Himself and is the ultimate blasphemy. My
good brother, Jodi is just a fellow traveller along the road that leads to the
kingdom of God maybe she wanders from side to side sometimes maybe she sits
down and sulks for awhile maybe she even walks the wrong way sometimes but that
is no reason to discourage or condemn her.
EC: You are my good brother?
In your treatment of me in your subtle accusations, I find it hard to believe.
Do I go around seeking brothers like you? If Jodi is just a fellow traveller
going to the kingdom, then what are we? Can we count on your such wisdom when
a mob of people encompass Ulrike? We have been accused and judged sir? What
is your statement of that? You have missed too many comments Jodi has made in
judging us, and have preached to us principles that Jodi and even you do not
know yourself. The very comments you are making here in order to tell us to
stop making accusations are subtle accusations and false judgments against us.
I see no difference between your judgment, Jodi's judgment, Rhoda's judgment
nor Tom's judgment.
Ralph: The thing is we
all see through the glass darkly. Just because you have found a gem or two of
truth using the lesser light does not mean you have found the mother lode of
the gospel.
[Isn't it strange that
this message bypassed Tom Norris, when Tom has not even found any light at all,
but demands that we all give up our views to his?? Who are these strange folk
brethren? Ralph Thompson continues:]
Once again I mean no offence
and I am not asking you to unlearn what you hold as truth but please be a little
less self righteous about it.
EC: We are not the ones
having views that the whole world must submit to. We do not appreciate your
demeaning of the Spirit of Prophecy, nor your subtle insertion of accusations
against us and the way we interpret. I can hardly remember even posting comments
using Ellen White very much on this forum. Your post is filled with false accusations
while you preach against being judgmental. As Jodi is concerned, you have not
posted a single condemning nor accusatory comment against her.
Sorry, but you mean much offense to us, and you have found the common subtle
way of pushing it. Yes, you have accused us. Also, SORRY, but there is enough
room on this forum for all of us, but there is not enough room in this church
for all of us. We know that soon we will be forced to leave, but in the meantime,
we must tell the truth for a witness against all before the Lord comes in his
anger.
[EC already had a feeling that
he would be forced to leave that forum. That forum is a mirrored image of the
Adventist Church denomination, not to mention your city, state, country, continent
and WORLD!]
EC
By Maggie Bockmann (Maggie) on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 05:03 pm:
EC said:
We know that soon we will be forced to leave...
As far as I know, we have only
history to go on.
Ballenger, Ford and others were forced to leave the ministry, unorthodox people
on the official SDA forum were not allowed to speak as openly as you are here,
and if I understand correctly, were banned from the forum. The last I heard,
there were plans to test the orthodoxy of religion teachers periodically, as
a condition for continued teaching.
Do you have information about plans to force Traditional SDA's to leave the
church that you could share with the forum? (Or am I misunderstanding you completely?)
Should we expect Desmond Ford and others to be reinstated into the ministry
before you are forced to leave--that would seem logical to me from here.
You said: ...before the Lord comes in his anger. That's the cloud I lived under
for so many years, and still struggle with. It's such a miserable way to live,
in my experience. Is the blessed hope looking for the Lord to come in His anger?
Thanks.
Maggie
By Emmanuel Clarke (Emmanuel) on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 09:24 pm:
Maggie,
You did not deal with the issue. You dealt with points around the issue. The
question is whether or not Ulrike or myself have asked those who do not believe
as we do that they must change their views. I have shown that Jodi and others
have more than asked us that we must change our views. Ralph Thompson then came
in to teach me that I must understand that there is room on this forum for people
who do not agree with me.
That is basically the issue here that you skirted. Was that lesson appropriate
for me to learn? If it was, where is the evidence that I or anyone else who
loves Adventism have asked those who hate it to relinquish their views? Where
is the evidence for this? I have submitted my part, now where is their part
that justifies them accusing us of being intolerant? Please address the issue
and the point.
Your response I have shown is more befitting those who oppose us than we ourselves.
EC
By Jodi Thiessen (Jthiessen) on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 09:24 pm:
Ted: You ask why I asked this
question of Ulrike.
"Ulrike, what do you honestly think would happen to Adventism if we would
"Throw Ellen White far, far away?"
You notice that when I asked the question of her the "Thow Ellen White
far, far away" part was in quotations. The reason for that is because that
was a statement she made in her previous post, and I wanted to try to understand
what she believed would happen if the SDA church decided that the BIBLE would
be their ONLY authority. It was an honest question based on her previous statement.
Sorry if you missed part of the conversation or misunderstood it.
Jodi
[Jodi is deliberately lying here. There are far many more examples to demonstrate that she always demands for Adventists to give up their beliefs so that they can join her ecumenical and globalistic cult.]
By Ulrike Unruh (Ulrike) on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 11:37 pm:
Ah--- This was the post to which
Jodi asked the question-- what do you think would happen if you "threw
Ellen White far, far away?".
_______
So are you folk suggesting the Adventist church apologize to the pope for thinking
his religio/political system is anti-christ?
Are you suggesting we apologize for believing his religio/politic system is
the beast and whore of Revelation?
Are you suggesting we thereby repudiate the whole protestant reformation? The
God ordained movement which brought us liberty from the tyranny of the beast
and it's false doctrines?
Are you suggesting we repudiate our belief in the three angel's message?
(As well as the state of the dead, the 4th commandment, sanctification, the
second coming, the judgement, and waltz right back into all the wine of false
doctrines in the cup of the "whore" sitting upon the scarlet beast?
Till we are so drunk we don't even know that this is the day of judgement--
)
Thereby making of none effect our whole doctrinal beliefs? And be like the drunken
guests at Belzhazzars feast?
Are you suggesting we join in the great religious movement "ecumenicalism"
and acknowledge the pope as the shepherd of us all?
Oh yes, we better throw Mrs. White far, far, away for she would never allow
us to do this. She must be declared a false prophet -- Even though her interpretation
fits the Revelation perfectly and makes all the OT
prophecies make sense.
In other words-- If this is your agenda-- your recommendation--
AND ALARMINGLY FOR MANY OF YOU IT IS! You are doing exactly what the Jesuit
plan for bringing all churches under the banner of Rome is all about.
You are fulfilling the very prophecies you scorn!
You are bringing about Revelation 13, ignoring the stern, severe warnings of
Revelation 14.
Remember the reaping angel comes AFTER IT IS TOO LATE, the reaping angel COMES
to reap the whole earth-- the righteous for eternal life, the wicked are given
to slaughter.
_____
Notice the total skirting of the issues and the use of a "clarifying"
question to bring the subject back to their program.
By Ulrike Unruh (Ulrike) on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 11:56 pm:
Another point of interest E.C.
that I find rather revealing is Norris's way of digging up the pioneers work
to "prove" that the three angel's messages are out moded -- while
totally rejecting everything the pioneers said about those messages.
The first two messages he places in the past and the third he totally rejects.
And -- wow -- he's dead determined to change the view of every Adventist in
sight against the three angels message. Gets pretty nasty about it too-- I guess
posters are allowed to call people names upon this forum!
He does it all the time.
[Ralph Thompson now endeavors to speak. It is now time to witness unbridled Jesuit tactics in action. He told the forum that they should respect each other, respect their views and realize that there is room on that free forum for everyone. It is now time to demonstrate that he and his friends can do anything and get away with it through the new Adventists that will sit by and watch to their own destruction. We will bold the subtle accusations in his proud display of hypocrisy:]
By ralph a .thompson (Ralpht) on Sunday, March 19, 2000 - 03:15 pm:
Unfortunately having a persecution complex does not make one a martyr. Just because someone may disagree with me does not mean I have to think I am the victim of some Jesuit plot. [EC didn't even talk about any Jesuit plot in the response he gave in his demand for answers. His points must be ignored and covered with accusations.] Don't be so childish surely we can discuss spiritual subjects in a mature way without tying our shirt tails in a knot. [If you are falsely accused, Ralph Thompson is telling all that the best thing to do is to take it and accept it. Don't be childish to think that you must defend yourself. That is not normal behavior.
Now remember his statement that
the forum is big enough for people of a variety of views? Remember that Ralph
Thompson could not afford to notice that Tom Norris cannot tolerate people who
differ from him? In this next statement you will see why Ralph cannot notice
anything wrong with Tom:]
EGW is full of inconsistinises
one would have to be a blind idiot not to see it and what would you expect she
had a blow to her brain that nearly killed her as a child and never got over
it. If she were alive today she would be recieving medical attention and there
wouldn't be any visions.Not saying there is not some merit in the things she
copied from other writers but "an inspired prophet" ? Get real.
[It is therefore very plain that Mr. Thompson is an unscrupulous worker for the Papacy. That is supposed to be then the end of all discussion with him, but, though EC would continue to try, the time for his existence on that forum has about ended. By about the time of this posting, he had already been warned through email by Greg Billock that he must stop causing trouble, he is no longer to dialogue with or refer to Jodi, and he has to stop posting anything about Ellen White. EC was told that if he cannot find it within himself to comply with those directives, he will be asked to leave the forum. At the time, EC did not check his email, so he did not know what was there.
Ralph Thompson continues to respect the views of others without a word of remonstrance from Greg or the rest of the strange folk bringing in the Vatican gospel.]
What would happen to the church
if we threw away her writings? We would have 100 converts where now we only
have 2 or 3. We would have a Christian community where we wouldn't go around
bashing other Christians especially [WE]
Catholics. [And
that is greatly what Tom is actively striving for also.]
We wouldn't be blathering such nonsense as 1844 or the
mark of the beast,or the IJ.We would have assurance of our salvation in Christ
and we would not be teaching the Trinity . The list could go on and on.
My experience in the SDA church and I've been a member since 1962 is that the more a member is into EGW the more self righteous and judgemental they are. [By this posting one would be liable to think that Ralph reads EGW more than any other material according to his own bold statement!] Why do I stay? So that those who are near and dear may hear the true gospel not the ramblings of a 19th century peasant women in northern New England.
[The forum is not big enough for her either. Here now Tom had told us that he did not oppose Ellen White. Ralph Thompson is everything like Tom Norris, but these words of hate had to come out. What then is Tom Norris actually?
Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs so
that you can understand that these are the murderers of the saints throughout
the ages, that they are close to you and that they are about to strike! Ralph
continues:]
Wake up my dear brother! This SDA church is changing! [That's right: WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT because people who are just as "righteous" are firmly in control of the denomination. None of these came to discuss anything. They are here to get your submission to the Papacy. Once you allow them their place, they will soon demand that you keep Sunday. If you do, YOU WILL SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD AND HAVE NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT IN THE FLAMES OF HELL!] The Daystar is rising you no longer have to stumble around in the dark with the "lesser light." Open the windows of your heart to [their pope] "Jesus" [Don't you want to become righteous like Ralph Thompson?] when you do you will see that Jodi is both your sister and friend.
Ralph T
[EC NOW HAS TO SAY GOOD BYE!!]
By Emmanuel Clarke (Emmanuel) on Sunday, March 19, 2000 - 03:55 pm:
Yes Ralph,
There are alot of blind idiots on this forum who have told us that even the
blind idiots are blessed and that there is room on the forum for them all. And
I am not just another traveller looking for truth before the truth of Ralph
strikes me in mid flight? Why this fundamental lack of respect for those who
disagree?
From the start, I knew that you opposed God's Church. At least I was not blind
enough to ignore the fact that you inserted many skillful accusations against
me in your posting.
That's why you couldn't tell that Pat and Tom were telling us that we had to
give up our beliefs. Are there other people who are not blind idiots who didn't
know that Jodi and Tom are always trying to do this?
The good news I have for you all who claim to love all views being expressed
is that I checked my email and noticed two messages in there served to me by
Greg Billock. The first message warned me to be respectful of everybody else
who do not share my views. It told me that I am to have no more dialogue with
Jodi Darnell. It told me that if I could not see it within myself to do this,
I would be asked to leave. That message also forbade me from saying anything
whatsoever about Ellen White on this system. If you are thinking of asking me
why, don't bother. I am just as much in the dark as you are.
The second message dated today told me that since I could not live up to the
arrangement and continued to dialogue with Pat, I am asked not to post here
anymore. When looking at the posts, I could not find anymore dialogue with Jodi.
Nevertheless, therefore, the forum remains a predominantly anti-Adventist basically
cell group experience, where the Adventist church will wind up changing, and
the only reason that we can find that it would change is because Adventists
are always determined on forcing their views upon everybody else. When it does
change we can be sure that the intolerant nature of the Adventists already in
there has accomplished the tragedy. They will push that to the very day that
it falls.
Frankly friends, the good news is that there is a cure for CANCER!
Cancer can be cured! Those microbes ravage the body until the body dies. After
that, then the cancer dies.
Why do many good Adventists often get kicked out of these unbiased and open
forums? How is it now that others can state that they have a record of being
thrown off of these forums that claim to be so free?
Don't look now, but here comes the comments of those who told us we are ALL
blest and that the forums were always big enough for those who do not believe
as we do.
Goodbye Y'all!
EC
[Check to see the comments of Tom Norris and the others on EC's departure. Check to see if they will continue to accuse EC of being as intolerant as they are trained to be.]
END