http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/DanT.htm
JESUIT DIALOGUES !!
Updated 07/06/2005; added reactions from posting on the Beliefnet forums.
(Dan T, after appearing on a discussion forum and vouching for someone who was
accused of being a Jesuit, then, naturally, immediately went into attack mode
against Ellen White and used the same tactics that identified the other fellow
as being a Jesuit. He here starts out by complimenting someone who only posts
attacks against Ellen White.)
Below this work is Dan Tiffin's response to this expose on him. After years, he
finally decided to give some kind of response. This has just been added (October
9, 2003). As you read you will notice that Dan Tiffin continues to use Jesuit
tactics and continues to deny being a Jesuit.
Dan T. (The Jesuit)
Our Comments
Randy,
Great post.
Until I unshackled my chains and took off my blindfold, I accepted everything
E.G. White wrote as gospel -- literally. I didn't know any better. That is how I
was raised. My parents, being good and faithful SDAs all their lives, have
almost every E.G. White book ever printed. During our Friday evening worships he
would read to us from -- you guessed it -- E.G. White books. Even now, when my
Dad has some free time to read, guess what he turns to. The Bible? No, he
reaches for a E.G. White book. His Bible rarely sees the light of day.
Obviously, this is not indicative of every SDA church member. But I cannot count
the number of similar stories I've heard from other SDAs and former SDAs. The
church, whether they wish to admit it or not, encourages its members to regard
the writings of E.G. White as *equal* to the Bible.
[The first problem, as usual, is that these all told us that we can have our
honest views and that no one is to ridicule or put down anybody for them. As you
can see, true Adventists neither hate nor have a problem with people just
because they disagree as this strange person has often stated. This is just one
main indicator that the person is a Jesuit. No one who tells us that we must
expect that people are going to disagree, are supposed to be narrating about any
"blindfold" that they see in others who disagree with their views. True
Adventists were not the ones who brought in all this debate with the intent to
destroy Adventist doctrine. It was the Jesuits who brought in this condition.
One main indicator of a person being a Jesuit is that he will continually bring
in rules and principles upon us that he has no intention to keep.
Yet please remember that the second readily visible problem with this person is
that he is not here focusing upon Christ, as the rest never really do, but
merely blasphemously uses the name of Christ in order to hide their papal
agenda.]
I've heard statements from reputable sources that indicate
about one-third of SDA pastors do not believe that E.G. White was an inspired
messenger of God. Another third have serious doubts, and the rest are die-hard
supporters.
Why do many have doubts? You have correctly pointed out some of the reasons,
Ray, and there are many more:
The link above will have more specific answers to the questions being posted here by Dan Tiffin:
On the question: Was Adam Deceived
by Satan?
E.G. White: (YES) "Satan, who is the father of
lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God,
that he would not die if he transgressed the law." (Evangelism, p. 598)
The Bible: (NO) "And Adam was
not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."
(1 Timothy 2:14)
[Both statements are correct, depending upon how you
look at the issue. Adam was not deceived in the sense that the Lord told him not
to eat of the fruit. Regardless of anything any serpent said, Adam knew. If Adam
was with Eve at the time she was tempted, she would never have been fooled.
Yet again, Adam was deceived upon another very critical point. When he realized
that Eve was lost, he thought that the best course to pursue was to eat the
fruit along with her. In the process, he rationalized the idea that God, who had
often demonstrated such love to them, would, in the time of the greatest fear,
look the other way and not punish them for their transgression. Adam became
deceived by his love to Eve. He did not bother to think that Eve could have been
replaced, and after Adam actually did the deed, he afterward lamented that he
had done it. He therefore WAS deceived in that sense.]
Or, how about this one: Did God Send Ravens to Feed
Elijah?
E.G. White: (NO) "There He honored Elijah by
sending food to him morning and evening by an angel of heaven."
(Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 288, 1873)
The Bible: (YES) "I have
ordered the ravens to feed you... The ravens brought him bread and meat."
(1 Kings 17:4, 6)
But then Mrs. White changes her mind three years later and says: (YES) "He who fed Elijah by the brook, making a raven His messenger." (Testimonies, Vol. 4, p. 253, 1876)
[The person here is struggling to deceive his hearers by
picking at every word and forcing them to conform to contemporary standards. Yes
the ravens did feed Elijah, and YES, the reason why they had sense to do that
was because they were guided by an angel. At times the bible even may say that
an angel appeared to someone, and elsewhere we learn that it is Christ.
Ravens don't, of their own selves feed men. They would be guided by
Angels, or we can still yet even say they were guided by the Lord. Ravens
don't feed Dan Tiffin. As you can see, Ellen White didn't change her mind
at all! The examples given you here are just a raindrop compared to the
deceptions that will rain everywhere in a gigantic tsunami by the Jesuits!]
Another question: Was Adam With Eve When She Was Tempted
in The Garden?
E.G. White: (NO) "The angels
had cautioned Eve to beware of separating herself from her husband while
occupied in their daily labor in the garden; with him she would be in less
temptation than if she were alone. But absorbed in her pleasing task, she
unconsciously wandered from his side. On perceiving that she was alone, she felt
an apprehension of danger... She soon found herself gazing with mingled
curiosity and admiration upon the forbidden tree." (Patriarchs and
Prophets, pp. 53 & 54)
The Bible: (YES) "When the
woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye,
and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave
some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it." (Genesis 3:6)
[Eve, after eating of the fruit, ran to Adam with it,
and therefore Adam "was with her." You must understand here therefore what is
being said. This man is trying to tell us that Adam was with Eve all that time
and just stood by and watched her pick of the fruit and eat. Therefore, just as
this person was stating that he had a mandate to expose the "inconsistencies"
and "deceptions" of Ellen White, you must understand that he did not take too
kindly when his inconsistencies were here exposed. He, and the Jesuits in
general, then go into all kinds of guilt-tripping, trying to shame us into
thinking that it is unloving, unchristian, and even criminal to expose their
inconsistencies while they continued a barrage of attack against Ellen White and
the Adventist Church without a problem. THAT IS JESUITISM! That is not a matter
of having a problem with someone just because they disagree. This very charge is
typical Jesuit tactics!]
Yet another one: Was The Plan of Salvation Made After The
Fall?
E.G. White: (YES) "The kingdom of grace was
instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the
redemption of the guilty race." (Great Controversy, p. 347)
The Bible: (NO) "For you know
that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were
redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,
but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was
chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times
for your sake." (1 Peter 1:18-20)
The Bible: (NO) "For he chose
us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his
sight." (Ephesians 1:4)
[The plan of salvation was INSTITUTED after the fall. It
cannot be done before when no emergency existed. IT WAS PLANNED or CREATED
before the fall, but it was actually put into practice after it.]
It's not just the contradictions with the Bible that I
found disturbing, it's also the fact that she continually contradicted herself:
Are We Required to Kneel Every Time We Pray?
(YES) "Where have our brethren obtained the idea
that they should stand upon their feet praying to God? One who has been educated
about five years in Battle Creek was asked to lead in prayer before Sister White
should speak to the people. But as I beheld him standing upright upon his feet
while his lips were about to open in prayer to God, my soul was stirred within
me to give him an open rebuke. Calling him by name, I said, "Get down on your
knees! This is the proper position always." (Selected Messages, Book 2,
p. 311)
(YES) "Both in public and
private worship, it is our duty to bow down before God when we offer our
petitions to Him." (Selected Messages, Book 2, p. 311)
(NO) "We need not wait for an
opportunity to kneel before God. We can pray and talk with the Lord wherever we
may be." (Selected Messages, Book 3, p. 266)
(NO) "It is not always necessary to bow upon your
knees in order to pray." (Selected Messages, Book 3, p. 267)
[Need we answer this!??]
LET'S UNLOCK THE DECEPTIONS!...
It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY not to be deceived. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to
check things out. If you are deceived and then wind up hating, hurting or
killing others because of deceptions you have received, YOU WILL BE HELD LIABLE
BY THE LORD FOR IT! No plea of ignorance will help!
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=62&discussionID=439877&messages_per_page=4
This link above now no longer is valid.
Post 247 On Beliefnet:
"CONFUSED new non-SDA"
Let's first get the issue again clear with the prophets of God!
Are we saved by works?
BIBLE: YES! John the Baptist, after being asked what must
be done for salvation, his reply to the people:
Luke 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that
hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let
him do likewise.
To the Publicans:
13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that
which is appointed you.
To the soldiers:
14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And
what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse
any falsely; and be content with your wages.
ARE WE SAVED BY WORKS?
BIBLE: NO!!
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through
faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the
works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in
Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the
works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Now let's look at Christ's words Himself:
In Mark 10 Christ says:
17 And when he was gone forth into
the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master,
what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou
me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not
commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud
not, Honour thy father and mother.
20
And he answered and said unto him, Master,
all these have I observed from my youth.
21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and
said unto him, One thing thou lackest go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and
give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the
cross, and follow me.
22
And he was sad at that saying, and went
away grieved: for he had great possessions.
Here now is what you wrote and began again to show us your talent in despotism:
Here Christ told him to obey the commandments in order to be saved. After
telling him that he yet lacked something, Christ told him to sell all his
possessions.
CONCLUSION: FALSE PROFITS!! (The word
"profits" here is what the jesuits used against Ellen White, claiming that her
visions and whole being were devoted for financial gain).
This is the inevitable result and tragedy among true prophets. If you DON'T
STUDY DEEPLY AND CHECK THINGS OUT, the Jesuits will come by AND TAKE YOUR MIND
AND CROWN BY MAKING YOU MISUNDERSTAND THEM! Christ told them to keep the
commandments after they acquired the understanding that they need a Saviour to
bear the penalty of the sins they already committed and Who can provide power to
obey by faith.
DON'T LISTEN TO THE JESUITS!
END